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21
It says it's armed, but the motor doesn't run. Again, Test Outputs makes it spin like a .. cat?

By "like a cat" I guess you mean spin correctly.  :)

If you post the CC3D settings (File->ExportUAVSettings with CC3D plugged in), we can look at it and see what might keep the throttle from working.

I wouldn't give up.  The motor(s) run(s).  It should be a simple thing to figure out at this point. Forgive me for being very complete in the following descriptions.  I've undoubtedly included things you already know and do.:
- Flight battery needs to be plugged in (or RC receiver doesn't get powered).  ;)
- With flight battery and USB/GCS plugged in, and transmitter on you can go to Input (->RC Input) page and see the sliders move according to the transmitter sticks.  Make sure the throttle slider moves when you move the transmitter stick.
- Are you using "Always Armed"?  This is a minor pain because any change you want to make, you must first turn off "Always Armed", then make the change, then turn on "Always Armed".
- If not using Always Armed but using "Throttle off and X" then you must be able to get to absolutely 0 throttle and full "X".  A little bit of transmitter trim or dual rate or channel offset, etc. might keep you from getting zero throttle and full "X".  And you must hold the "Throttle off and X" for a whole second.
- It won't arm if there is an alarm or you have GPS Assist or AltitudeVario or AltitudeHold or some cases of AlwaysStabilizeWhenArmed, etc.
- Some ESCs require a zero throttle, full throttle, zero throttle cycle each time you plug a battery in.  Not usable for a quad, but maybe you have one of these in an airplane?

Some of these don't apply to CC3D, but trying to enable them would still cause arming problems.

Is all your stuff airplanes using AlwaysArmed?
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Yes, one of 'em only needed one "CLI: Flash_Erase". It connected with BF without the need to flash BF on and a single Flash_Erase was enough.
This info helps.  It says that you did not have to flash any firmware to "fix" at least one.

I remember two I bought last summer, that 'functioned' out of the box, but the last two seemed to have nothing on it. If I remember correctly, they only had a weak, slow blinking blue led. To get them to do anything, I U&E'd them by pressing U&E on fw-tab (1609) and then connect device. When they came to live,they all had BL4.
Weak slow blinking (fades on and off) LED says that it has a bootloader, but does not have any flight firmware.

At this point, I wonder if the cloners use a version of BL4 that is not the same as LP's BL4.  I forget, have you flashed LP's BL4 onto any of them?
23
Damn! I was fiddling with a 'revived' CC3D just now and I'm really sorry, but it seems I've been 'lying' to you the whole time. I used a 'bad' CC3d in a new plane and found that though it looks like it is Armed, it is NOT! I get a green tick when saving 'Always Armed', and when rebooted, it says it's Armed, but my motor doesn't run! I tried 'Test Outputs' in Output-tab before to check and it all worked fine. I stupidly never checked if, after arming, my motor would run. Guess I was just too happy with a Green Tick after only seeing  Red Crosses 'till then.

So, I have a booting, working CC3D, that at first wouldn't save any settings, that now -after erasing with BF (I only use BF. CF doesn't connect) does save settings, but though it seems to arm normally (green tick), in reality doesn't. But 'Test Outputs' does arm the motor! So it says it's armed, but isn't???

I have tested the other one of the last shipment and it's the same! It says it's armed, but the motor doesn't run. Again, Test Outputs makes it spin like a .. cat?

I think I'm ready to throw the towel and send them back/ask for a refund.
24

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Where there any "bad" CC3D's that you know that all you did was BF/CF erase flash several times (no BF/CF firmware).  What did you use (BF or CF) (erase flash or flash and run BF/CF firmware) in this last go round that seems to have fixed them all?  Any best guess?
Yes, one of 'em only needed one "CLI: Flash_Erase". It connected with BF without the need to flash BF on and a single Flash_Erase was enough. Problem is, all devices look the same and I don't number them (  :-[ ), so I have no idea which one.
I still have a feeling that it has to do with arming. Don't know why, it's just a feeling, but the CC3D's behave like they are 'Always Armed'. The whole way they react is the same as if you try to change something while armed.

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Is there anything you can think of that you did that finally made the bad ones good?
- Flashing BF vs. CF firmware
- Booting BF/CF firmware.
- Using BF vs. CF to erase flash
- Waiting longer for the BF/CF erase flash before powering off
I really can't tell. You see, You started out trying to identify the exact problem, while I was only trying different internet found solutions (in between working on my bathroom)  to try to get some (some already refunded) 'defective FC's' working, as a way of taking my mind off the bathroom for a while. I was not systematically searching. I've done all of the above, but I don't know what I did to which one. After ev'ry 'session' with the CC3D's I just put them all back in a drawer. It's only when you started asking things that I really started to pay attention.

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- Old version bootloader that got upgraded when you were doing BF/CF flashing stuff.  LP updates the bootloader code to V4 and then BF/CF does and finally (maybe never) the CC3D cloners do so it could have had an old LP or LP compatible BF/CF bootloader on it.
I remember two I bought last summer, that 'functioned' out of the box, but the last two seemed to have nothing on it. If I remember correctly, they only had a weak, slow blinking blue led. To get them to do anything, I U&E'd them by pressing U&E on fw-tab (1609) and then connect device. When they came to live,they all had BL4.

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- Bad flash chip that gets better after being erased several times.
Until they fail completely probably.

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- Finally waited long enough before power off with CF erase flash.  I don't know how long it takes.
I always wait for Atti & Stab to turn green. That should be long enough?
25
General Discussion / Re: Setting up for first flight.
« Last post by TheOtherCliff on May 16, 2019, 05:31:11 am »
Do you actually have the aux mag connected and configured?  That style of mag is exactly what is described in the wiki article I linked to.  It requires another cable (besides the GPS cable) to be connected to FlexiPort.  It requires Attitude->Mag->AuxMagOrientation to be either 0,180,0 or 180,0,180.  Also any aux mag requires you to set Atti->Mag->MagUsage to be either AuxOnly (preferred) or Both (not preferred).  If you are missing even one of the requirements, then you are using the OnBoard mag only which can actually work for big quads (say 450 or larger) if your high current cables are properly twisted.

Some GPSs even claim to have a mag, but have an empty place on the circuit board instead.

Now days, for future purchases, I recommend buying a DJI/Naza GPS/mag which puts both signals (GPS and mag) on one cable, so it frees up a port.  Also, there can be problems with the I2C signal of your style of GPS/mag that sometimes needs adding pull up resistors to get it to work well.  I generally buy OCDay brand Naza GPS for about $23 shipped on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OCDAY-NEO-M8N-GPS-Sensitive-for-DJI-NAZA-Lite-V1-V2-Flight-Controller-RC783/312537851509

GPS Navigation (INS13) is really what you want for 16.09 AttiEstAlgo to use GPS flight modes.  You are OK to use something else for non-GPS flight modes though.

My estimate of 5 degrees is what I have found for my FCs in my place on earth when I did setups a year and more ago.  If I had recalibrated everything and it still was 6-8 I would correct it in RotateVirtual (for me, preferably in AuxMagOrientation because then you can use the same 0,0,0 RotateVirtual for both Basic and INS13 (or some small numbers that satisfy Basic) without changing RotateVirtual since Basic doesn't use mag, see the wiki article).

Mag fields can be a bit strange inside a house or on the ground or close to your metal car, etc.  The GCS horizon does jiggle a bit when you think it shouldn't when using INS13, but it works fine.

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Again the problem for me is that it is either going up or going down.
Learning More:
- Learn to control aLtitude first.  Don't touch the other controls.
- After several trim adjustments it will stay in one place better and give you more time to practice holding your aLtitude reasonably.
26
General Discussion / Re: Setting up for first flight.
« Last post by Stardaddyed on May 16, 2019, 03:23:38 am »
I GOT IT OFF THE GROUND!  Hopped it up a couple of times and it held mostly stable. 

I could correct the roll in INS13 if I used a 6 - 8 correction. So I switched to basic and there was no correction needed.  I noticed that in that mode it was stable when it was just sitting on the ground. In the INS13 it would be tilted but also very unstable.  I moved it to "Complementary + Mag+ GPSOutdoor" and again no tilt and stable.  I decided to give it a go and up she went. She wondered around a little but it was easy to correct with slight movements of the stick. Again the problem for me is that it is either going up or going down.  I set it down and tried it again.  Up she when and I just corrected for the little drift if she got out of hand.  "Set" it back down. 

I am sure I should be using the algorithm but it worked.  Also I am using a "Geekstory BN-880 GPS Module U8 with Flash HMC5883 Compass + GPS Active Antenna" Post is on the way.
27
General Discussion / Re: Setting up for first flight.
« Last post by TheOtherCliff on May 16, 2019, 01:36:19 am »
How strong is the magnet?  :)

What GPS are you using?  I hope it has a mag sensor.  It is best to:
- use a mag sensor that is part of a GPS
- mount the GPS up on a pole
- change your settings to use ONLY the aux mag (not onboard or both)

There are other things you should do like twisting all your high current cables.  Generally, if you twist all your high current motor cables (battery to connector, connector to PDB, PDB to ESC, ESC to motor) then the aux mag inside a GPS up on a standard say 150mm pole is far enough away, considering that it is more than 150mm total distance from the sensor.  I'm going to say at very least 200mm total.  Smaller quads that use less current can get away with shorter distance between mag sensor and high current cables.  Of course you won't see any mag problems from the wiring until you fly at high power.

The standard 1-8S Lipo alarm has tiny real speakers with magnets.  About the same distance is OK for them.  Some airplane hatch hold down magnets that came in some of my airplanes need to be farther than that, at 250-300mm I can no longer see a difference in the mag scope.  With FC or GPS/mag stationary and watching the GCS mag scope or sensor numeric outputs, bring your magnetic part close to find out how close you can see any tiny disturbance and make it farther than that.  For mag fields around wiring, it has to be under highest current flight load (props on at full RPM) to generate max mag field so bench measurement is often not possible.
28
Deutsch / Re: Fahrzeug configuration speichern Costum-modus
« Last post by utoedter on May 15, 2019, 10:04:04 pm »
Wie Cliff schrieb, geht das speichern nicht, wenn der CC3D scharf geschaltet ist. Das findest Du bei den Input Settings, im Tab arming settings. Dort kann es abgeschaltet werden.


Rettet den Luftraum, esst mehr Vögel
29
General Discussion / Re: Setting up for first flight.
« Last post by Stardaddyed on May 15, 2019, 09:50:34 pm »
Thanks for the response as usual.  Geez you know a ton!

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Since you have Attitude->Settings->AttiEstAlo set to INS13, your mag must also be mounted far away from magnetic field sources and well calibrated.  Also your Home Location should be reasonably accurate.  Also there are issues with certain areas of the globe having mag field deviations.

How far away is far away?  I have the FC mounted in the middle of the craft (Readytosky S500 Quadcopter Frame). The receiver is on the front lip of the lower shelf and the GPS is on the back lip.  The FCis mounted with plastic bolts through the housing to the top of the top shelf directly over the PD/BEC board (a HOBBYMATE XT60).
30
Deutsch / Re: Fahrzeug configuration speichern Costum-modus
« Last post by TheOtherCliff on May 15, 2019, 09:49:10 pm »
Über Google übersetzen

Es gibt zwei typische Gründe, warum CC3D keine Einstellungen speichert:
- Es gibt eine Sicherheitsfunktion, mit der Sie Einstellungen nicht speichern können, wenn sie scharfgeschaltet sind
- Es gibt ein Problem, bei dem das Löschen von Einstellungen nicht funktioniert und der Flash-Speicher keine sauberen Blöcke mehr enthält und keine Einstellungen mehr speichern kann

https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=4492.0

***********************************************************

Via Google translate

There are typical two reasons why CC3D will not save settings:
- There is a safety feature that will not let you save settings when it is armed
- There is some issue where Erase Settings does not work, and then the flash storage runs out of clean blocks and cannot save settings

https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=4492.0
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