New here and new to multirotors
« on: February 15, 2016, 02:39:03 pm »
Hello major newb here my name is Rob. i just got done building a totem q330 quad and just had it out for a few flights. im having a problem when going beyond 50% throttle it shakes pretty bad. ive adjusted my pids a little here and there but i cant seem to dial it out. i just enabled tpa and have yet to fly it. but i wanted to see if im on the right track. as ive said. the current settings i havent tried yet. i lowered the p and i 7 down and enabled tpa.

its a totemq330
sunnysky 2207 2100kv motors ZTW SPIDER PRO 20A ESC blheli 6x4.5 props 4s 1800mah battery fsi6 transmitter flying in attitude mode.

pictures of my pid settings. my quad. and a link to my first attempt at fpv. shows the shaking problems....thanks guys!



« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 02:42:45 pm by Bobdudeman1988 »

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 04:12:39 pm »
Yes I believe your on the right track. Tune pids till its smooth most of the time. Half throttle and below. Then Add TPA, which reduces the PID's at higher throttle to get rid of thoes high throttle shakes. Usual TPA activation point is around 1500 on the throttle, so about half. Example. TPA start at 1550 at 10% reduction in PID and at 1900 have it like 50% reduction and see how that flies. (If that makes sense) you may only need 20-30% reduction in PID at full throttle. So play with it. I've heard of some guys using TPA to increase PIDs like 10% at low throttle for flips and acro flying at low motor rpm. I'm not exactly expirenced in setting up TPA, but I believe you are on the right track. Look on google or the LP wiki for TPA examples if you get confused.

What does it do if you lower your P for pitch and roll below the 210 mark. Try like. .00190 for pitch and .00175-.00180 roll. With your quad being longer than wider(the body) it's will need a slightly higher pitch p gain than on roll. Lower your I a touch too. Come down .00020-.00030 on I with the gains too. Like 620 for roll and 630-640 for pitch. It looks like it fkys just fine except the shaking. To high P can cause the the high frequency occilating. Are these default PIDs?

If you like the way it flies control wise maybe just fiddle with the TPA first.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 05:14:13 pm by NicholasDavid »
5" alien 4s 596grams with battery and GoPro FPV
Lantian LT210 4s 604grams with batt and GoPro FPV
GE X220 4s 6" 513grams with batt and HD cam FPV
Homemade acro X copter. 6" 4s - like a warpquad LOS

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2016, 12:34:55 am »
no there not the stock pids. i picked a profile that that the same motors and props and went from there. however when i first tried with the factory pid it shook so bad on take off and flipped over and crashed. i lowered the p and i on roll and pitch till i got what you saw in the video. its been snowing all day and i haven't had a chance to try out the settings i just posted but there not to much different than what i had before aside tpa. ill try what you suggested when i get a chance.

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2016, 01:35:16 am »
Being only a 330mm quad I wonder what the blackout or Emax tune would fly like. They both run a 6" prop. And might be a quick fix.

If you got to where you are from lowering PI on Pitch and roll I would say keep going a little more then tune TPA. You may not need it
5" alien 4s 596grams with battery and GoPro FPV
Lantian LT210 4s 604grams with batt and GoPro FPV
GE X220 4s 6" 513grams with batt and HD cam FPV
Homemade acro X copter. 6" 4s - like a warpquad LOS

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2016, 03:48:42 am »
i tried a few profiles. all ended up the same. death flips. i feel like im almost there. im anxious for this shit weather to go away and i can start flying more. but untill the snow melts a bit im grounded :( ill report back when i have done more testing. thanks for your help!

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2016, 12:40:14 am »
well i had some time to do a quick LOS test. with the settings i posted. pitch seams alright. but roll is twitchy and i think there is some high throttle twitches yet to but seams better. i do a full throttle punch toward the end and you hear my lipo buzzer sound. ill try lowering my roll gain a bit next.

here is video.(soon as its done processing...runcam2 files are huuuge)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5rzOXl0AyI&feature=youtu.be

« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 12:59:19 am by Bobdudeman1988 »

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2016, 08:09:29 am »
what c rating is your battery? I would say that high c rated battery is very important for quads. you got 4 times the amp draw compared to fixed wing Craft and even if your quad works fine with lower c your batterys will suffer

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2016, 09:36:44 am »
Its an 1800mah 45c glacier battery from buddy rc. I figured max amp id draw is 80 amps full load and that battery fit the bill. My lipo alarm is just touchy. Likes to beep at 3.4 volts somtimes. When it goes flat dead its louder and beeps like mad

Mateusz

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  • 808
Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2016, 10:09:44 am »
Its an 1800mah 45c glacier battery from buddy rc. I figured max amp id draw is 80 amps full load and that battery fit the bill. My lipo alarm is just touchy. Likes to beep at 3.4 volts somtimes. When it goes flat dead its louder and beeps like mad

1800*45/1000 = 81 Amps max continuous current. If you determined that at full load it draws 80A it would be just right the battery limit, so makes sense. Or did you use more powerful battery while determining this ? I rarely fly battery till it's flat dead :) They don't last long that way.
This is pretty good calc http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc.php if you want to determine efficiency of your build.

Quad may also shake if it tries to spin up props but battery stalls, it may look like choking, at least mine did that when battery was low.

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2016, 02:33:18 pm »
im gonna try that calculator! and during this test the battery wasn't 100% full...like 80% and it was very cold outside. still it only does the beep after a full throttle punch...witch with this thing..isnt really necessary all the time :) edit: i just looked up some thrust test videos for my motors. looks like they pull 27 amps each at full load. so i might be overdoing it a bit. and my battery dont have a specified burst limit. my escs are burst rated for 30amps so i should be ok on that front. ill just avoid the uber punch outs all the time :)

ill get these battery's once im ready to start flying all the time

http://www.buddyrc.com/glacier-75c-1800mah-4s-14-8v-lipo-battery.html
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 02:43:58 pm by Bobdudeman1988 »

Mateusz

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  • 808
Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2016, 03:37:01 pm »
really necessary all the time :) edit: i just looked up some thrust test videos for my motors. looks like they pull 27 amps each at full load.

motors might be rated for certain power, but the current they draw depends on the surface of props and the speed, so if you put props with bigger surface they will draw more current (if battery allows and esc can stand it), decreasing flight time, but giving more punch. Although if you exceed electric power rating of motor (Volts * Amps your draw), the windings may melt due to higher temp, short and "blue smoke".

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2016, 09:21:12 pm »
i was always partial to magic smoke :) is there a for sure way to figure out what the max amp draw is on this thing? i know the motors can take it..but im concerned about the escs.

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2016, 01:46:50 am »
well i had a 3rd test flight today and i think its pretty good. however due to wind i cant fly outside so i did a quick flight in the house. just to kinda show the settings the only thing im confused on is the inner and outter loop settings.. ive been matching them together but i dont know if thats right. still...flys pretty good.
here is the settings i used and a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vah4g2wUF-I&feature=youtu.be


Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2016, 04:11:00 am »
Inner loop is rate mode PID and outer loop is attitude PID
5" alien 4s 596grams with battery and GoPro FPV
Lantian LT210 4s 604grams with batt and GoPro FPV
GE X220 4s 6" 513grams with batt and HD cam FPV
Homemade acro X copter. 6" 4s - like a warpquad LOS

Re: New here and new to multirotors
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2016, 04:44:06 am »
But they do work together in addtiude mode. Im just curious is to how you set them.. Like i did mirroring the settings?