AeroR

  • *
  • 18
Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« on: June 04, 2017, 09:45:25 am »
Hi All,
New member here from Australia.
Just joined in to get some help with a new FPV mini quad build using Open Pilot boards.
After a very long break(almost 5 years) from this hobby, I'm back and ready to start over again.
I have a CC3D (used) and new Open Pilot Revolution with GPS(still in box) flight controller.
Have a few 3S 1000, 2200,3000 lipos and Gemfan 5030 props.
My intention is to build a non-racing FPV mini quad using the Impulse RC Alien 5" frame.
I did not have luck flying with the CC3D in the past and never got a chance to open the Revolution.
So, now here I am ready to start all over again and learn from this forum.


AeroR

  • *
  • 18
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2017, 09:57:52 am »
My question is which FC to use(Revolution or CC3D?)with this FPV mini quad(Alien 5")
https://impulserc.com/collections/alien/products/alien-fpv-frame.
My budget for this initial build is around A$500 including frame.
What quality parts do I need to buy to make the return to this hobby a very enjoyable one.
Looking for your experience with motors and ESCs and FPV hardwares.
Bear in mind this will be a non-racing build.
Looking forward for experienced members input.
Many thanks again.
Aeror

Mateusz

  • *
  • 768
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2017, 10:53:31 am »
I would suggest motors 2204 size and perhaps ~2300 kV. Would be good to get ESCs with BusyBee2 basically any ESCs that flash with BLHeli_S, 4x separate ~20-24A ("opto").
For radio low budget Taranis Q7 is quite good, I flew with one it's decent, and you can use Sbus with it and Frsky has some very nice tinny receivers.
Order some nylon standoffs assortment kits, good to mount FC to the frame, unless you have these. I see no reason not to use Revo (which is better than CC3D), just put it in the not transparent case and cover baro with porous foam. If you plan on using GPS, you will need a mast that is not rotating ~12cm, if  GPS is too close to motors/pdb/esc it won't work well, but you can still fly without GPS+Mag just with Complementary (Basic) and Baro.

AeroR

  • *
  • 18
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2017, 05:04:25 pm »
Hi Mateusz,
Thank you for the quick reply.
Already have a radio Tx( Hitec Aurora 9 with Optima receiver)
Here are the parts I intend to order including a few options about motor and ESCs.
Want to start initial build with Line of Sight(LOS) flying  in mind first and slowly adding the FPV gears and hardwares.
My reasoning behind this process is that the quad should be built with quality components,well tuned FC and frame which should eventually result in a safe and stable quad to fly FPV.
I understand that this process will take some time as aiming to get a well tuned quad at first attempt is highly unlikely.
Here is a list of the motors and ESCs that I have in mind.Would these be compatible with 3S 2200 25C lipos? Will definitely go with OP Revolution with GPS then and keep the CC3D as a spare FC.
Motor option 1:
Emax RS 2205-2300KV  https://impulserc.com/collections/motors/products/emax-rs2205-2300kv-motor-cooling-series

Motor Option 2:
TBS Mr Steele  2306 -2345KV Silk  https://impulserc.com/collections/motors/products/tbs-mr-steele-2345kv-silk

ESCs Option 1
Aikon 30A ESC  https://impulserc.com/collections/escs/products/aikon-2-6s-blheli-s-30-amp-esc

ESCs Option 2:
KISS ESC https://impulserc.com/collections/escs/products/kiss-24a-esc-race-edition

Props: Gemfan 5030 two bladed :https://flyduino.net/5030-Gemfan-2-bladed-Propeller-Set-orange-8-pcs-4-CW-and-4-CCW

Also was wondering what is the difference between triblade props vs two bladed props on  this FPV 5"quad  set up? Does using triblades over two bladed props add any real benefits in flight time?
Many thanks again for your help.
Regards,
AeroR

Mateusz

  • *
  • 768
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2017, 06:39:38 pm »
Would these be compatible with 3S 2200 25C lipos?

I don't think it is a good choice of LiPo first of all 2200 mAh is too heavy, I would think 1800mAh is a bit too much. Second, 25C is way too low discharge rating, your battery is gonna puff very quick and will not deliver as much current as needed. Third, it's 3S, I wouldn't waste money on 3S batteries.
HK Graphene 65C 1500mAh 4S might be better choice. You will have more power and more pleasant flying experience.

KV Silk  https://impulserc.com/collections/motors/products/tbs-mr-steele-2345kv-silk
ESCs Option 1
Aikon 30A ESC  https://impulserc.com/collections/escs/products/aikon-2-6s-blheli-s-30-amp-esc
ESCs Option 2:
KISS ESC https://impulserc.com/collections/escs/products/kiss-24a-esc-race-edition

I am not really familiar with these products, I would have a look at power rating of motors given 5040 props you gonna use.
This is not best website but might give approximately idea https://www.ecalc.ch/, also check youtube for builds with similar frame.

Check weight of ESC, to be be in range 24-30A, check motor power rating, motor should have good wires (not with solid core like some cheap sunnysky which are hard to solder).

Also was wondering what is the difference between triblade props vs two bladed props on  this FPV 5"quad  set up? Does using triblades over two bladed props add any real benefits in flight time?

Three blade props will just work harder and produce more thrust, but will also draw more Amps = shorter flight, but more power. Pulling more Amps from your battery than it can deliver, will make it puffed very quick and it wont fly great.

I don't know how good pilot you are but IMO benefit of expensive parts is only noticeable/useful from a perspective of very top pilots. Yet copter from cheaper components can fly very very well and be competitive but costs way less than "hipster" stuff :) I wouldn't spend too much money on parts, you want to crash a lot I guess. It also very much depends how you build it, how you cut the cables to reduce weight, how low profile you make it. Of course buying cheapest motors is also not optimal as bearings might go bad, or they may fall aparat/vibrate... buy decent ones that other people use.

Maybe try T-motors for 250-280mm frame kits F-60 ones or for 200-250mm frame kits F-40 ones, don't really know whats your frame size, it might be 225mm if I am googling correctly, so F40 should be fine.

Maybe check this as reference build
https://oscarliang.com/alien-mini-quad-frame-review-build-log/
http://store.rotorriot.com/impulse-rc-alien-rr5-kit/
https://rotorbuilds.com/build/691
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2473157-ImpulseRC-Alien-FPV-Frames

I hear KISS24A are nice (friend is using) dunno about AIKON32, both are using 32bit ARM, I think that's a bit expensive, I would go with something more popular/standard using busybee2 chip and BLHeli_S. For example these https://www.banggood.com/4X-Racerstar-RS30A-V2-30A-Blheli_S-ESC-OPTO-2-4S-Support-Oneshot42-Multishot-for-FPV-Racer-p-1074733.html

At least that's what I would do.

Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2017, 07:05:52 pm »
If those batteries are anything close to 5 years old, they are probably bad unless you stored them at storage voltage in the refrigerator.

I always try to use my cheapest boards first if there is no reason to use the expensive one.  :)  So do you ever want GPS in that quad?  Do you want altitude hold (baro) in that quad?

For almost everything the CC3D should be the same as the Revo.  The Revo does have a baro to give you altitude hold which is nice.  The Revo can handle some of the new ESC signal protocols that I think maybe CC3D will never support.  Of course, if you think you might want GPS, then the Revo is the way to go.

Mateusz

  • *
  • 768
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2017, 09:53:13 am »
The Revo can handle some of the new ESC signal protocols that I think maybe CC3D will never support.

As far as I know, LP implemented DShot without DMA such that it can be used also on CC3D and it should work exactly as good as on Revo.
CC3D does not have baro and can't do autonomous flight (no sensors, not enough sram).
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 10:18:10 am by Mateusz »

AeroR

  • *
  • 18
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 01:42:40 pm »
Hi All,
Thanks a lot for the reply.
I'm really liking this forum given the advice being provided by experienced members and speedy response.
Mateusz- Just ordered the following as per your advice:
2(Sets) X T-motors F 40 T-motors 2204/2300KV  http://www.multiwiicopter.com/products/t-motor-f40-2300kv-2x-motor-set-au
4 X 30A ESCs BLHeli-S http://www.multiwiicopter.com/products/30a-blheli-s-carbonbee-opto-esc-au
HQ Props 5030 http://www.multiwiicopter.com/products/hqprop-5x3-cw-ccw-4-4-8-props

TheOtherCliff - The lipos are still in the box but haven't checked them yet if they are still in working condition- probably not, given that I did not store them in the refrigerator.
After watching some Youtube videos about the Impulse RC Alien 5" build, I have to agree with you that it might not be such a good idea to have GPS feature on this particular FPV quad build. However, I'm planning to use the OP Revolution FC without the GPS as it has a strong following here  and strong ongoing support  as well which makes it a no brainer for me.
I have noticed that a lot of FPV pilots  using FRSky Tx. Should I get the FRSky Taranis X9DPlus and sell the Hitec Tx? I'm leaning more towards getting the Taranis as part of this build.
Would be nice to have your opinion on this.
Also do I need to flash the ESCs BLHeli-s before mounting them on the quad? If so what hardware do I need to buy. A link would be very much appreciated.
Many thanks again and really appreciate your time.

Regards,
AeroR

Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2017, 06:33:28 pm »
I have a Tarot TL150H1 that I plan to put GPS.  It was to get a fully autonomous quad under the USA FAA weight limit.  I am using it for exploring, not racing.  With the current USA government, give the government a month or two and they will give the FAA the real right to regulate RC and the FAA number will be required again...

If your HiTec works, use it.  :)  (It is 2.4ghz, right?  Else the RC Rx antenna length is a problem.)

One nice thing about the Taranis is the all the aftermarket receivers you can buy.  Cheap, tiny, feather light, long range, telemetry...  I have a sack full for all my imagined builds.

Here is a link for BLHeli flashing that I found.
http://dronehitech.com/en/blheli-passthrough-easy-esc-flashing/

Mateusz

  • *
  • 768
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2017, 09:06:37 pm »
Also do I need to flash the ESCs BLHeli-s before mounting them on the quad? If so what hardware do I need to buy. A link would be very much appreciated.
Many thanks again and really appreciate your time.

There is a code which I used already with Revo Nano and Sparky 2 boards for flashing ESCs via flight controlle though you would need to compile LibrePilot yourself and pull specific branch, I am not sure if it's merged yet and I don't know why its not :) But I also have that programming stick
http://www.multiwiicopter.com/products/carbonbee-program-stick
It's the link for the website from which you ordered your ESCs, it says in ESCs description and I got exactly the same one from other website :)

I agree with Cliff, no need for Taranis if you have radio already, and especially I would recommend not to buy another radio, until you know/figure out at least couple of features that you really need from that other radio :) Anything should work, other radio is more like a luxurious item, nice to have but not must, some people may hate it, some love it :)

Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2017, 09:22:52 pm »
Did I see that the "BLHeli pass through" (flash and settings changes to all ESCs at once while still connected to the FC) got merged into next recently?

Mateusz

  • *
  • 768
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2017, 09:51:12 pm »
Did I see that the "BLHeli pass through" (flash and settings changes to all ESCs at once while still connected to the FC) got merged into next recently?

There is code for doing that here https://bitbucket.org/mindnever/librepilot/branch/soft_serial4 works just fine, I could flash 4 ESC at once and configure them with BLHeliSuite.
But probably needs some testing before merge, last time I tried it, it worked :)

AeroR

  • *
  • 18
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2017, 09:55:49 am »
Hi All,
Here is a few pics of my old mini quad from 5 years ago.
It is a 210 Bambucopter clear polycarbonate size frame with 12A Turnigy Plush ESCs and 1800Kv motors with 3S 1000 mAh lipos.
Believe it or not I was struggling to fly this safely with OP CC3D 5 years ago.
Now that I found this  and it seems to be still working( I can hear the Escs still beeping when connected to a 3S lipo, I thought to myself why not get the CC3D to life and try to revive it  and get some help form forum members here.
Just to get things rolling I thought to give this mini quad another chance in life while still waiting a few more days for my FPV Alien 5"parts to arrive.
I would be very grateful if someone can help me out set up the tx.

Regards,
Aeror

AeroR

  • *
  • 18
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2017, 10:00:29 am »
Here are a few more photos of the OP FC

AeroR

Mateusz

  • *
  • 768
Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2017, 12:11:50 pm »
I am not that experienced to say if this would fly good. Some things would worry me
  • Type of material too flexible
  • Props not mounted firmly
  • FC must also be mounted firmly to the frame
From my experience my first build 450mm plastic flame wheel f450 was flying like drunk because either props were unbalanced or FC not mounted firmly. Balancing props of 5" is not important but stiffness of frame, props might matter. You don't want vibrations. Did you tune PIDs yourself ? We have Autotune now with Revo but I am afraid shaking Autotune does could break this frame it looks fragile. I would clean up, shorten cables as well. What motors/brand are these ? Do they spin (without props) smoothly ? You could try bigger Tau accel/gyro for vibrations filtering but not too big, each part of GCS should have tooltip if you hover mouse and wait few sec.