Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2017, 05:08:12 pm »
If it has a good setup and tuning and was flying before, you might consider installing the old OP version that matches and starting out flying it as it is to prove that it works and familiarize yourself a little with what you used to know.

Either that, or assume it is a new quad and install LP on it and run the setup wizard to get to a default flying quad.  You will probably need to update the bootloader, before you update the firmware.

https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Firmware+Tab
Do:
Update bootloader - Rescue method
Then:
Update firmware - Manual method

AeroR

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2017, 05:16:25 pm »
Hi Mateusz,
The frame is extremely flexible as it is made out of polycarbonate.
One of the motor/ESC is not getting any current when connected to the  3S lipo whereas the other three are fine just by the beeping sound of the ESCs.
I might have to get rid the frame and motors  and keep the ESCs and LEDS.
The motors are no name elcheapo brand.Bought  for under $8/each at Hobby king at the time.
When comparing FC, what is your opinion  on KISS FC by Flyduino?
How would you compare it to CC3D?Is it any better in terms of ease of set up and use and features?
Also my Hitec TX does not hold power for very long.Any idea if I can put a 2S lipo instead? If this can be done, what size lipo would you recommend? I mean what C rating and mAh? The current Nimh battery is rated @7.2V/1300mAh
Also, maybe this might sound a dumb question but when setting up my mini quad on the TX, under what model should I be setting it up? There are thee model selection namely: Acro, Glider and Heli.
Thank you for our reply.
Regards,
AeroR

Mateusz

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2017, 06:04:02 am »
Hi,

I think KISS is a very good flight controller but its made for racing and runs properitary software, you can Not flash it with LP. I havent used it myself though collegue did. I am not sure if it has any navigation features or altitude hold, its mainly racing FC. Probably has better mcu than CC3D something more like Revo. I think you should try to find manual for your radio and check whst batteries. I think voltage must agree and with 2S that would be 8.4V fully charged above what your ninh batteries deliver so lipo would probably burn yoir radio but check manual. About acrimheli,glider for quadcopter its probably acro but again this seems hitec radio specific, i never used thst radio. My first radio was turnigy 9x which i immedietly moded and flashed with OpemTx (same as used by taranis) cause i couldnt stand stock firmware from turnigy. I think you are better off if you buy branded motors and frame and start with new build, previous one does not look promising.

AeroR

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2017, 06:25:18 pm »
Hi All,
Just got all the parts today for the Alien 5'' mini FPV quad.
As  I was putting all the parts together,  I realised that the ESCs are all BL Helli-S 30A, none of them has a red(positive./power supply cable).
From my understanding is that at least one of the ESCs should have a positive red cable to power the CC3D FC.Is there anything that I'm missing here?
Also, should I flash the ESCs before soldering and mounting them on the quad or after soldering?
How to decide the motor direction  when soldering  the motors and ESCs? I know M1 rotates CW, M2 CCW, M3 CW and M4 CCW.
I have enclosed a  few photos of the ESCs so that you can have an idea of what I mean by the red positive cable missing.
Also, may be this is going to haunt me later on, but have decided to start with CC3D FC on this build as I need to practice  a lot before moving up to OP Revolution.
The Impulse RC Alien 5" is a very solid frame and well designed, but a pain to put together. It took me more than an hour to get it assembled.
This is my unbiased opinion only but have to mention this, Alien 5"is expensive but well worth it for its quality parts.

Thanks,
Regards,
AeroR

AeroR

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2017, 06:37:45 pm »
Also the All up weight for the mini quad is around 550g.
The build parts:
Impulse RC - Alien 5"mini FPV frame
Motor: T-motor 2204/2300Kv
ESCs: BLHeli-S 30A
Lipo: Turnigy Graphene 1500 mAh 65C 4S
Props: HQ5030 twin blade.
 Is the weight ok for this size frame /motor and lipo?
Thanks,
Regards,
AeroR

Brian

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2017, 09:12:27 pm »
The best way to size motors, etc is to looks at the specs of the motor.  The rule of thumb is that you generally don't want to have a trust to weight ratio of less than 2/1, so, with 4 motors, you want the maximum thrust from each motor to be no less than 50% of the total weight of the quad.

The thrust depends on all the drive train parts, and you should be able to get motor specs from tables produced by the manufacturer.

It looks like this is the motor that you have: http://www.rctigermotor.com/html/2014/Navigator_0124/192.html

, and it shows those motors only supporting up to 3S.  With a 5030 prop at 3S, it shows a maximum thrust of 332g.  You will be pushing the motor outside of the specs with 4S, but even with 3S the motor is powerful enough for a 550g quad IMO.

Mateusz

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2017, 01:26:54 am »
It looks like this it shows those motors only supporting up to 3S.  With a 5030 prop at 3S, it shows a maximum thrust of 332g.  You will be pushing the motor outside of the specs with 4S, but even with 3S the motor is powerful enough for a 550g quad IMO.

He didnt get older navigator series but newer F series. You look at wrong specs, newer F series run 4S according to specs just fine. Also you can see these are F series on his photos ;) not old silver t-motors.

About determining motor direction, i use the clamps to hang washed clothes run them to see direction, then swap wires if necessary and solder. Middle wire missing from ESC is normal, you need to provide power from regulator on pdb 5V. You dont want noisy voltage from esc or have regulator on esc that would add weight/complexity and heat. Escs with regulator are not common anymore.

About thrust to weight more than 1:2 is a good rule, the more you can reduce weight the better of course.

Brian

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2017, 02:59:44 am »
Good catch on the motors.  It must be these motors, then:

http://www.rctigermotor.com/html/2015/fpvmotors_1117/305.html

You can get over 1000g of thrust with those motors!


Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2017, 07:00:29 am »
Also, should I flash the ESCs before soldering and mounting them on the quad or after soldering?
How to decide the motor direction  when soldering  the motors and ESCs? I know M1 rotates CW, M2 CCW, M3 CW and M4 CCW.

I would flash the ESCs before soldering and mounting.

For Revo class only there is a test version of code that can flash all at the same time with ESCs connected to Revo.

You could carefully use wires that have insulated alligator clips at both ends to connect ESC to motor and slowly spin the motor with a servo tester connected to the ESC.  I fly 330 to 500 quads.  I always use bullet connectors (insulated with heat shrink tubing) between ESC and motor, so it is just a matter of unplugging two wires and switching where I plug them back in.  That is 12 sets of connectors though, which is extra weight.  Also there comes a small enough size that I would not use bullets.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112347492928

Be aware that both SimonK and BLHeli have options to make them spin backwards if you would rather flash than change wires.

If you have a matched set of motors and a matched set of ESCs and the motors have different colors on the 3 wires then once you find the order for one you can know all of them.

If you get all of them backwards, there is a check box in GCS Vehicle page to reverse all motor directions.  Then just swap props too and everything works.

AeroR

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2017, 03:33:49 pm »
Hi All,
Just finished with my quad and after rewiring the ESCs everything is working in perfect order.All the motors are spinning in their respective direction.
No issues so far.
Brian - The motors are the new F40 Series designed for FPV racing. It has more than 1000g thrust I believe.That is insanely powerful.It's more than enough for a beginner to get into trouble.But I'm not racing at this stage.

TheOtherCliff- I am very keen on learning to flash the ESCs through the FC.I would prefer to go this path as it would make things a lot easier.Is this process called "Passthrough"?
Is it possible to flash the ESCs using Betaflight/Cleanflight as the Passthrough method?
Would it  affect my quad in anyway  afterwards  when setting up through LP? I don't see this feature yet in LP. Or am I not looking in the right place?
If there are anywhere that I can use the Passthrough method of flashing my ESCs the easiest way, please provide a link  or list the steps required for CC3D users who want to use this method.
I feel like getting very close to flying now and the Alien FPV is looking great.
I will post some photos later on of the weight.
Mateusz- Middle wire missing from ESC is normal, you need to provide power from regulator on pdb 5V. You dont want noisy voltage from esc or have regulator on esc that would add weight/complexity and heat. Escs with regulator are not common anymore.
I have this aluminium polymer capacitor soldered on the PDB: https://impulserc.com/collections/misc/products/aluminum-polymer-capacitor.
Is this that you were referring to? Please provide a link to what I need to solder on the PDB.
I'm using the Impulse RC PDB. https://impulserc.com/collections/pdbs/products/alien-4oz-copper-pdb-kit-black
Many thanks to all those replying to my questions.
I really appreciate it.It makes this hobby so much more fun and very interesting to learn a few things along the way.

Regards,
AeroR

Mateusz

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2017, 05:14:24 pm »
  • Usually PDB has place to either connect regulator or has built-in one. Regulator reduces voltage from battery voltage to 5v.
    You must check with multi meter if the output voltage is 5v before powering FC. I don't know if your pdb has built-in regulator but one can buy them separately. For example pololu one 5v 1A or some other BEC.
  • About flashing ESC there is a branch of developer who made passthrough but it's not merged yet. All you need flashing for is active barking and reverse direction of motor. But you should be able to fly just fine with default firmware on ESC.

Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2017, 05:24:52 pm »
Flashing Beta/Clean Flight involves flashing a bootloader then / and firmware.  Changing bootloaders from one brand to another can be a complication.  If you really want to use passthrough, I suggest that you flash the LP developer testing version that has that and read the thread about it.  That way you won't have to change bootloaders from one brand to another each time you do it.
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=3510.msg24079;topicseen#msg24079
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=1468.msg10803;topicseen#msg10803

@Mateuze has used it and could tell you more.

I can tell you that all the "large" "cheap" ESCs that I buy still have BECs built in, because they can be used for airplanes too.  Maybe the new, small, more advanced quadcopter ESCs don't usually have BECs now.

AeroR

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2017, 01:57:39 pm »
Hi All,
I am still waiting on the Pololu 5V voltage regulator to arrive.My order will be delivered by early next week.
In the meantime I have bought a 7805 5V voltage regulator.You can see in the picture, it is to the right of CC3D among a few capacitors.
Is this suitable to solder on the PDB to power CC3D with 5V? Or Should I wait for the real Pololu to arrive in the mail.
There are not many info on how to solder this on a PDB to power the FC. All I know is it is a 7805 voltage regulator and the shop I bought it from said it will do exactly the same job as the Pololu.Also, if this happens to be similar to the Pololu in terms of functionality, how do I wire this to the PDB ? All I can see is G on the right hand side of the regulator and the number 7805 and a few other numbers.
Also after watching a couple of YT videos about building a mini quad a lot of builders are using and recommending to use electrolytic 330UF capacitors as the Opto ESCs do not have any capacitors built-in nowadays to save on weight.
My understanding is these capacitors protect all the onboard(sometimes expensive electronics) from voltage spikes.Should I solder them next to each ESCs on the PDB pad?
Another question regarding the programmable RGB LED that I bought from Impulse RC: https://impulserc.com/collections/leds/products/alien-rgb-led-ring.
I intend to use this LED on the quad to connect to CC3D.Any advice of how to get this connected and wired as well please?
Should this be connected to the servo headers on Pin #6 as I'm going to use Pin header # 5 to power the FC from the PDB through the 5 V regulator.(Servo headers 1- 4 allocated to motors).
Thank you for reading this and any help will be very much appreciated.
Regards,
AeroR
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 02:02:26 pm by AeroR »

Mateusz

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Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2017, 03:42:31 pm »
Hi,

Regulators can be generally of two types: switching or linear(one you got on photos LM 7805).
Pololu I belive has switching regulator(depends probably which pololu) and can reduce a lot of voltage but is noisy, i prefer switching regulator anyway since FC has linear one and caps. Linear regulators are less noisy but produce tons of heat the higher thr voltage and have couple of other drawbacks.

You must always check if you solder them correctly, always check output voltage, it may happen that if you do not solder them correctly they output your battery voltage.

About putting caps on escs you do this only on big escs and escpecially when you enabled active barking. I dont remember exactly but there should be recommendations in ESC manual. Personally i never did it, because all electronics i power, everything goes from switching regulator with filters, not directly from pdb/battery/esc circuit. Some cameras can be powered directly from same voltage as esc, i guess that would be a problem. If you want you can put an LC filter after regulator or buy PDB which has regulator and fitlering caps. I dont think this is gonna be an issue and indeed caps on each esc add weight.

What is important is that you should not exceed voltage your circuit requires. If its 5V keep it 5V. What you have to pay attention to is amperage. If your regulator gives 500mA and your electronics onboard takes only 300mA you are good. If your electronics tskes 500mA then your reg is gonna work hard, and if your circuit needs 700mA then your reg might burn out. Best is to have reg that can deliver more amps, of course that usually means bigger reg, but there are tiny pololu that can do 1A 5V. My whole on board flight gear on 280mm build uses ~600mA with very powerful video tx. I dont know how much your gear draws.

Check for matek brand pdb or some pdb on banggood some come in 30.5 hole spacing (stadnard fc 36x36mm) size and could fit neatly under fc such as cc3d or revo. If your frame kit has holes for soldering pololu, use that. My Wasp II from birdseye.nu had place for pololu. Sorry for long and verbose post ;)

Just check with multi meter whatever you do, and always check polarity.
Good luck.

Re: Open Pilot Revolution + GPS
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2017, 06:00:55 pm »
Google for:
 7805 pinout

Typical 7805 circuit has some small capacitors that go with it, but I have used them without capacitors.

7805 is a linear regulator which means the way it works is to waste the power as heat.  The higher the input voltage the higher the heat, so connecting it to a 2s lipo would not produce much heat.  3s would produce medium heat and need to be tested.  4s would probably produce too much heat and require a heat sink.

Standard 7805 will easily source 1 amp.  For you, heat is the real issue.  Test it by grabbing it after plugging the battery in with everything connected that draws power.  Hold it to see how hot it gets.  Uncomfortable to hold tightly but doesn't burn your finger is about as hot as you want to allow.  It is OK if it is only this hot during a whole minute.  If it ever gets hot enough to boil water, it is way too hot.  Try to not let it get this hot and if it wants to you need a heatsink.  If it is out in the breeze it will stay cooler when flying.