claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2016, 02:11:13 am »
Ok as Cliff mentioned it does seem to stop on a dime where ever I release the sticks.
So as per PID tuning, when I hoover with it and slap sticks left, right forward and backwards
she pretty much comes back to attention with very little wobble which to me (correct me if I am wrong)
is essentially what I want? Correct?
when I punch her out she rolls up smooth and seems very stable. The only time I get oscillation is if I drop her very rapidly
but as soon as I get to a level I want to stop her at she reacts without delay and in no way seems sloppy. Thats pretty much true of all of my CC3D equipped quads.
Now then this is with default PIDs in Attitude.
So lets say she was a bit sloppy, do I adjust PIDs in Attitude or do I adjust in all modes I fly in?
Now another pain point is within GCS I see under the Advanced tab the only reference to PIDs. a set for Roll, Pitch and Yaw. I assume this is the correct area to adjust PID's in GCS?
What I read is to adjust P first then I and then D. I have attached a pic of my default PIDs for reference.
This is the area that is painful in light of the numbers. I suppose I could just start raising numbers until she goes crazy but I have also read people stating starting points. For example one video the guy says set all of my P's at 200 and everything else at 0...really?
Anyways...
Tonight I have spent some time looking over videos and reading and what I am planning on doing is setting up all 3 positions as follows.
1: Attitude
2: Rattitude
3: Acro+
I plan on using the same numbers I had with the rate but as Cliff mentioned Expo is different with a Spectrum which is what I have, DX8.
So does that mean instead of increasing the number I should decrease them to smooth out my stick control? I would also assume that this is mostly for Pitch and Roll and not so much for Yaw?
I would be glad to video tape the quad in question but I would ask that you coach me on what I need to do to help you in letting me know if for starters the PIDs need work before I waste a lot of time of tweaking the Modes. With the upcoming weather in my area and the winds we have been having the short term would be something inside. I can compile some video of this past weekends outdoor flights during some playing around with the guys.
Any who thanks so very much for sticking with me on this. I really want to learn and it seems that the only help I am getting is from this site. Seems getting help from the boys is harder than I thought. Seems its some sort of protected information LOL.
 

f5soh

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2016, 07:25:20 am »
Hi,

Much better set Expo on board, see here:
https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Expo+setup
You should have more precision around center.

You can reduce the Attitude "P" but do not set to 0 or you can loose control in Attitude stab mode.
the Attitude "P" is the last stuff to adjust, tune the Rate PID first using OPTune or EasyTune and a knob.
https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Attitude+Setup


claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2016, 01:08:09 pm »
Ok
So increasing Expo (Input of stick) reduces (output of stick) essentially smoothing out stick control on the copter.

ernstock

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2016, 09:11:01 pm »
Aaah , " flips n rolls for newbs" on OP forum , I remember it well - think I even copied some of it into a notebook.
I too use a dx8 , and not often having laptop access , use the expo function on the TX to set a bit of expo when easing myself into a new build.
(I prefer flying with linear response as a norm)
It may be a good place to look , as it does show you exactly what your stick input translates into.
As it were.
Please note , am only a beginner myself and definitely not suggesting I have tech knowledge.
Cheers

f5soh

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2016, 09:28:29 pm »
I hope the Expo page on wiki explain the expo feature...


claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2016, 01:37:07 am »
Once this rain moves through I am going to pack the laptop and quad up and go mess around with the expo.
I will also film some video FPV and external to show flight characteristics to post.
Thanks to all for the info

claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2016, 07:08:04 pm »
Ok so I had time to play around with the Expo and the other flight modes.
In Rattitude I noticed that stick movement was very lax or very slow to respond
which tells me that I should maybe lessen the amount of Expo I put in? Would you agree?
In Acro+ I seen that I was flipping very fast which leads me to think that
I should lower the roll factor? Correct?
Now as per Roll Factor does it apply in Rattitude or only Acro+?
I did some recording but I am at work right now.
After messing around with fast inputs to see how quad reacts
I see that maybe I need to play with the PIDs a bit to make it more snappy.
It reacts good but after looking directly at the quad I feel it needs
to react faster. Recovery from snap that is. It is a smooth to pop back
transition and not so much a snap to attention transition?

claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2016, 02:51:22 pm »
Well I've spent some more time researching and this video kind of sunk in a bit more than the others I have found.
So please correct me if I am still lost.
In Attitude mode it seems pointless to actually tune PIDs since this is a auto level mode?
In Rattitude I would summarize the same since from my understanding until you reach a
specific stick percentage your kind of still in Attitude, so again tuning is pointless?
I gather that tuning should be done in a Rate mode only to actually see the effects of your tuning
without the Auto Level interfering?


https://[size=78%]www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNvA7tutirc[/size]
[/size]


Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2016, 05:03:34 pm »
Correct all the way around

Video link does not work
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 06:44:55 pm by NicholasDavid »
5" alien 4s 596grams with battery and GoPro FPV
Lantian LT210 4s 604grams with batt and GoPro FPV
GE X220 4s 6" 513grams with batt and HD cam FPV
Homemade acro X copter. 6" 4s - like a warpquad LOS

Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2016, 04:46:30 am »
First of all, let me say that the best advice is to use default setup until you actually understand what it is you are changing and why you need to change it.  Don't just turn something on because it sounds interesting or because someone tells you to.  Research it and make an informed decision.

PIDs are like a car's suspension.  In a car, the suspension is factory tuned to allow the quickest response the vehicle is capable of.  Not that you use hard cornering every day, but there is just zero reason to have a suspension that is tuned less than perfectly.  The problem with our quads is that we are the tuners and there is no factory perfect tuning.  We have to do it ourselves.  Default values usually work pretty well.  Cloud configs sometimes are better and sometimes worse.

Besides the tuning, there is a "maximum roll/pitch rate" and a "(rate mode) rate" and a "maximum bank angle in attitude mode".  I can't tell whether your slow roll rate is because of these or because of a bad PID tuning.....

For a newbie wanting to do flips I recommend Rattitude stabilization mode on roll and pitch, AxisLock on Yaw, CruseControl on thrust.

Also: In GCS -> Configuration -> Stabilization -> Advanced (for what ever bank you need to adjust) there is a max rate, a rate and a a max bank angle (I forget exactly what they are called :) ).  The default rate is 220 which is just too slow for flips.  I recommend that you set both max rate and rate to 360 for starters.  That is one flip per second.  Watch a clock with second readout and imagine flips once a second.  It is quick enough to get it done, but slow enough to visually track even the first time you do it.

After setting these to 360, see if the response is more acceptable.  If you want Attitude / Rattitude (close to level) to have a fast rate then I recall that max rate is what you want.  If you want Rate mode to have a faster rate, adjust rate, but be aware that making rate higher than max rate then rate gets limited by max rate...  Acro+ uses rate at close to center stick, so you can adjust center stick for Acro+ with that.  It uses Insanity Factor though for large stick positions.

claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2016, 12:10:58 pm »
Hey Cliff
I couldn't agree more with in light of tuning.
I kept looking at things and decided to not touch the PIDs.
I am really just a beginner in light of the experience here on this site
and once my skill level increases to where I truly understand what
is happening I am going to leave well enough alone for a bit.
The more I read the more it was pounded into my head that "you
have to adjust PIDs". I personally don't feel it is necessary in my case.
The bird flys well currently and I'm good with that.
As per flips and rolls, I ended up just staying in Acro+.
Once I did some tweaks to the numbers and speed as well as Expo
I began to feel more in control.
I did try Rattitude and in that I liked it I still felt kind of weird with
messing around with the flips and rolls.
I spent some time Saturday in the field and brought the laptop
and tweaked Acro+ to a point to where I am almost flying as well
in it as I was in Attitude.
I did see some situations during flight that lead me to believe I do
need to play with the PIDs and once I get more experience under
my belt I will mess with them.
Thanks for everything

claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2016, 12:12:41 pm »
Correct all the way around

Video link does not work


Yea sorry I seem to have the worst time here getting links to work.
Sometimes they are there others just text and other times they just dont post  :/
Copy and pasting it (address only) did work after the fact. Sorry