claytonbakerjr

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Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« on: March 07, 2016, 11:26:27 pm »
I remember back in the day a sticky or something with this title. Maybe else where?
Does it still exist and if so could you please direct me at it.
Basically I am flipping and Rolling but I feel the sticks are just too sensitive to touch.
I hardly move them and the quad is kind of herky jerky yet I see guys fly in Rate and
their transition in their stick movement is smooth.
I read something about dialing in expo? to help this but that is another pain point for me
since I honestly have no clue :(
I have attached 2 pics with some of my settings which show my Rate and Rate Yaw is set at 575. Also where it shows Acro+ I increased roll and pitch factor to 50. Truthfully what does this do?
Any way any little bit of knowledge would be great.
Currently I like how she is flipping and rolling I just want to get rid of this herky jerky sensitivity.
When I get better I want to increase the speed just a little :)
Thanks very much

f5soh

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2016, 11:57:11 pm »
Quote
Currently I like how she is flipping and rolling I just want to get rid of this herky jerky sensitivity.

You want more velocity and you run default PIDs ?  Well, why not...
You should tune your frame first, and finally discover new capabilities.

Take a look here:
https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Advanced+tuning

Acro+ factors only applies while using Acro+ stabilization, no need high rates because at full stick motor go into manual mode (direct command from stick to motor)



hwh

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2016, 11:58:44 pm »
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=893.msg6490#msg6490 has links to the archive.org copy of Flips n Rolls for Newbies.

Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2016, 01:02:10 am »
Also you are looking for expo.  The second picture on the basic tab. That little graph thingy.  Add say(I like a lot of expo) 50-80% and see if that softens it up a tad.  But yeah a good tune will do wonders. You probably have a twitchy copter cause your P and D gain are out of whack. But also pitch and roll expo. I run about 72% expo on my pitch and roll for all(2) of my acro quads, With high rates around 550-600 degrees per second.

The acro plus factor is in degrees per second also. So you can run nice easy to control low rates 180-300 I would say and run a 50-60 acro+ factor so when you go full stick it flips at 500-600 degrees a second but general flying, its at the lower 180-300 rates.

I personally like rate mode. with high rates and lots of pitch and roll expo. But that's just what I'm used to so I stick with it. Full control.

My third bird is pretty much for fast cruising. And I run low rates on it, still with about 70% expo on pitch and roll. All my fixed wings are running expo as well. I find it just makes things easier to fly
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 01:11:00 am by NicholasDavid »
5" alien 4s 596grams with battery and GoPro FPV
Lantian LT210 4s 604grams with batt and GoPro FPV
GE X220 4s 6" 513grams with batt and HD cam FPV
Homemade acro X copter. 6" 4s - like a warpquad LOS

claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2016, 01:26:13 am »
I have been told I need to [possibly do some adjustments with my dirivites but from what I can see
the only oscillations I get is when I come down from like a full punch out but other than that
she (to me and my skill level) seems very solid. But I will check out the link and thank you

Quote
Currently I like how she is flipping and rolling I just want to get rid of this herky jerky sensitivity.

You want more velocity and you run default PIDs ?  Well, why not...
You should tune your frame first, and finally discover new capabilities.

Take a look here:
https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Advanced+tuning

Acro+ factors only applies while using Acro+ stabilization, no need high rates because at full stick motor go into manual mode (direct command from stick to motor)

claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2016, 01:29:03 am »
So from what I see most of you actually fly Acro+?
After reading more it seems a logical choice especially
with what I am looking to do, would that be a good assumption?
It would be great to see a Hybrid, Attitude while flat lining and Crazy
for the flips and silly stuff we do lol.
I know AttiRoll :)

Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2016, 01:39:05 am »
The hybrid mode is rattitude mode. Attitude and rate hybrid.  But I think most people eventually graduate to rate mode. Or acro+ with high rates and an even higher acro+ factor.  Rate mode is the eventual goal, for almost all acro flyers.
5" alien 4s 596grams with battery and GoPro FPV
Lantian LT210 4s 604grams with batt and GoPro FPV
GE X220 4s 6" 513grams with batt and HD cam FPV
Homemade acro X copter. 6" 4s - like a warpquad LOS

claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2016, 02:08:56 am »
I see, thanks.
One other thing that kind of confuses me is the Flight mode position for the switches.
I see in a lot of videos and pictures that even though people have defined Flight Mode pos 1 pos 2 ect
the Settings Bank remains the same. Should the banks match what you have in the Stabilization tabs?
Would that be for a person who is only flying rate or Acro+ and never flying in attitude? Therefore only using
bank 1 for example?

Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2016, 02:30:34 am »
My early copter and how I learned was. Use a 2 or 3 position switch. And have them set for different banks. So on a 3 position switch I have. Bank one basically defaults in attitude mode/self level with like 45-70 degree max bank angle. And that's my safe bank that I can switch back to at anytime and be in auto level and it's easy to hover and all that

Then bank two maybe set up as rattitude or acro+ if your so inclined. And start flipping while flying and get used to more banking angle and higher rates. If that's all the positions on your switch then maybe do bank two as a rate mode so you can start learning. And you can always switch back to the first bank with the switch if you get into trouble.

If you have three position switch then I would setup the first two banks as attitude mode so it's pretty easy to fly. One with all default settings. And bank two as the same with a higher max bank angle. So you can kind of feel what banked turns are like. And get used to rolling over farther in a turn. Then  set up a third bank all rate mode. Full manual control. No auto level, no accelerometer. That's where these machines really shine. Every acro pilot you see on YouTube doing these crazy acrobatic moves flys in rate mode.

Yeah if you watch thoes old videos thoes people had a lot of mistakes and didn't seem to know much about what they were doing. Most of thoes settings videos were all default numbers anyway 

It's better to search YouTube and the forums for how to tune PIDs your self and watch many many hours of video and read a lot and educate yourself on the whole tuning process. Then just start trying stuff. And don't just look for openpilot/LIBREPILOT videos either. There aren't many of thoes. All PID tuning is basically the same. It's just the numbers that will be different. The process and goal are the same.
5" alien 4s 596grams with battery and GoPro FPV
Lantian LT210 4s 604grams with batt and GoPro FPV
GE X220 4s 6" 513grams with batt and HD cam FPV
Homemade acro X copter. 6" 4s - like a warpquad LOS

claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2016, 02:47:42 am »
Thanks Nick I appreciate it.
Here is a video of me flying today doing some flips and rolls.
You will notice the herky jerky thing I am referring to is more so
me on the sticks, but as earlier mentioned it could also be a result
of poor pids.
Enjoy LOL...at the end I decided to stop the video because I got a bit cocky
and due to this "sensitivity" I either over or under corrected as a result :)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 07:28:03 am by f5soh »

claytonbakerjr

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Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2016, 02:48:33 am »
hummm where did my link go to?
I can see the link in edit mode but not when published.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 02:55:19 am by claytonbakerjr »

Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2016, 03:04:16 am »
Expo is what you need if it's too "touchy".   Can't see the video yet
5" alien 4s 596grams with battery and GoPro FPV
Lantian LT210 4s 604grams with batt and GoPro FPV
GE X220 4s 6" 513grams with batt and HD cam FPV
Homemade acro X copter. 6" 4s - like a warpquad LOS


Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2016, 04:05:28 am »
I see a little bounce after some flips and rolls. And it looks loose. Like its sliding all over the place. Hard to keep tracking in one direction. Some of that is pilot. Some of that may be expo, but 85% of that all over the place feel and sliding about is the tuning. It's looks mostly smooth and doesn't bounce as bad after a flip as it does a roll but it would fly a whole lot better with a solid tune and just fly

By the way positive expo. If you do negative it will be more sensitive.

Set your rates lower and move the acro plus factor up. Generally it should be higher than your regular rate response and max rate limit
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 04:28:14 am by NicholasDavid »
5" alien 4s 596grams with battery and GoPro FPV
Lantian LT210 4s 604grams with batt and GoPro FPV
GE X220 4s 6" 513grams with batt and HD cam FPV
Homemade acro X copter. 6" 4s - like a warpquad LOS

Re: Fips n Rolls for Newbs
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2016, 05:10:43 pm »
expo is backwards on futaba vs. spektrum.

The video looks like the rolls stop on a dime and that is good.  I guess I would have to fly it or watch you fly it to tell.