Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« on: May 11, 2021, 05:12:39 am »
I am considering using a CC3D controller on a flybarless Trex450.Could somebody tell me whether it would be anymore stable using the CC3D than your standard flybarless controller.Also could GPS be added to give more stability?Would there be a more suitable controller I could use instead of the CC3d?

Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2021, 09:53:31 am »
There are users here that have flybarless helis.

It is supported, but there is a lot of tinkering to set it up and tune it as it is not a commonly used function.

If you want ease of use (but no GPS) a standard heli-specific flybarless controller / gyro would probably be a lot easier to set up, but a lot more expensive and less flexible for future expansion.

Be aware that in LibrePilot, the CC3D does not support GPS flight modes.  You would need to use a Revo class controller for that.  GPS setup is a fairly large thing in itself.

More or less stable ... I suspect that most PID controllers are fairly equal, if you can get at all the setting to tune them.

Librepilot's main audience is quadcopters.  A raw beginner can set up and fly a quad (or other multicopter).  It's my opinion that for best results with other aircraft types (fixed wing, helis, bicopters, etc.) that you should be able to fly it minimally already (as much as that is possible) to be able to set up LibrePilot.  Kind of a chicken and egg if you are a beginner fixed wing pilot for instance.  There are flight modes that are much easier for beginners, but on top of significant thought in setup, they involve in-flight tuning.

Just trying to let you know that this is likely to be more than a one weekend project.

The guy I see around here that has experience with this is KarlA.  I see from his profile that he might come by once a week or so.

Good luck!

Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2021, 01:49:28 pm »
Thanks theothercliff you have given me the information I was looking for.I have been flying quads competently for some time however flying helicopters with complete confidence has eluded me.This is probably due to my age (75 years) and my reaction time.All I was looking for was a more stable platform that would compensate for my slower reaction time as what can be done with quads.

Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2021, 05:10:03 pm »
Can you fly a quad in modes that do not automatically self-level?  That is all there is to flying a normal heli without a controller (you still need a tail gyro at least).  An FBL heli does need a controller for the head too, so you and it will be a bit pulling each other up by the bootstraps as you set-up and tune.  :)  I would use @karla advice when he comes by.

Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2021, 12:24:45 am »
What I like about flying quads is if in trouble one flick of a switch and problem fixed.Helicopters are a different matter as one small mistake can create hours of repairs back in the workshop.I think that baulks me more than anything flying helicopters is having to repair them.Any mishap with a quad is relatively easier to repair.I recently changed my helicopters over to flybarless and they are a much more stable platform  but still don’t have a get out trouble switch.Anyway shall plug away and keep practising and hopefully accomplish my goal before I fall of the perch.

karla

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Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2021, 04:28:12 am »
Hello and welcome here Fly4fun,

Quote
I am considering using a CC3D controller on a flybarless Trex450.
Could somebody tell me whether it would be anymore stable using the CC3D than your standard flybarless controller.
Also could GPS be added to give more stability?
Would there be a more suitable controller I could use instead of the CC3d?

CC3D works fine in 450 size helis, I have had several. I am still using the smallest version of the CC3D board called Atom. Its the about the same size as the Revo Nano board
( https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/LPDOC/pages/26968079/OpenPilot+Revolution+Nano )
Its so small it can be fitted even in a 250 size Heli and its absolutely adequate if you are flying line of site doing normal, sport or mild 3d flying and not any autonomous things that requires a gps and mag, like position hold, waypoints etc.
Its really nice and enjoyable to fly in Vbar flight mode, which gives a great handle similar to having a real flybar heli. Its very different than flying in Rate mode.
I have used the standard flybarless controller from Align, its very stable and I don't think you should expect additional stability with cc3d. The reason to use Librepilot is you will have much more options to tune and change your settings.

In my experience, adding a GPS and mag and step up to a Revolution type board, will give you much more trouble to set up but gives you very limited 'bail out' rescue when you get in trouble. It happens too darn quick. The button you should train to use is the Idle-Up switch on the TX, for most cases as long as you are quick to switch it and kill the engine, the damage is limited.

There are lots of other controllers. But if you plan to use Librepilot software then I can recommend the little Atom guy.
I can share a set up file for a nicely tuned tree 450 you can start with. Attached at end of post.
You still need to fiddle around a bit to get thing set up okay.
If you want to move to more autonomous flights then I would go for Ardupliot and some board with onboard memory card for detailed logs. b t w they quite recently added Vbar flight mode so Open/Librepilot was years ahead :)

Quote
What I like about flying quads is if in trouble one flick of a switch and problem fixed.
Helicopters are a different matter as one small mistake can create hours of repairs back in the workshop. I think that baulks me more than anything flying helicopters is having to repair them. Any mishap with a quad is relatively easier to repair. I recently changed my helicopters over to flybarless and they are a much more stable platform but still don’t have a get out trouble switch. Anyway shall plug away and keep practising and hopefully accomplish my goal before I fall of the perch.

Agree with you, helis are soo much more mechanically complex airframes than quads. Very fragile for any out of the normal handling like just letting the tail rotor touch the ground while landing can make you spend weeks with spare parts etc.
But I have noticed that I don't fly my quads nearly as much as the helis - they are more troublesome and therefor interesting. I like to get the mechanics to work well and to do surgery on them :)
Its a marvel and most rewarding when everything is working smoothly.

They are stable enough and no need for super fast reaction time.
Its mostly about tuning it to your taste.

I think I posted a picture of them way back when https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=2892.msg20125#msg20125


Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2021, 11:25:29 pm »
Thanks Karla for all the information.Haven’t received the Atom yet but shall download your info and give it a go when I do.I like a challenge and enjoy the build.Keeps the brain matter active.Thanks again.

Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2021, 04:45:04 am »
Just tried to download the pid file but unable to.Using Apple.Doesn’t even show up on my Apple desktop.Displays the file on my IPad but can’t download.

trust

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Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2021, 06:00:04 am »
It should be named pid.uav - it's a text file that Librepilot will read in.
Second on the Atom controllers - I've used many of them - very rugged, stable and powerful.
I used to have a Trex450 but gave it away - tired of repairing it over and over again. It's definitely fun and a great machine - it would always challenge me to try more and more difficult maneuvers - and then I'd crash it. Lol.
Atom won't support GPS other than for use with telemetry data.
If you want full features with GPS and autonomous flight I'd get the Revolution Mini controllers to use with Librepilot.

Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2021, 09:55:48 am »
This is getting to be very frustrating trying to program the Atom for my 450 helicopter.I can go through the swashplate levelling and transmitter setup but it will not save the settings.The program has just been used to program a CC3D for a quad and that went through without any problems.Could somebody advise me where possibly I am going wrong.

Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2021, 10:37:06 am »
For testing: try changing/saving something simple, rebooting the CC3D and seeing if it got saved or not (then put the change back).

There are some reasons that it won't save:
- if the version of GCS is different from the version of CC3D firmware (the differences won't save).
- if you have set it to "Always Armed" or it is currently armed (this is a safety feature).
- there was an issue in CC3D firmware because it was only thoroughly tested on official CC3D hardware.  Some clone CC3D's use a different brand of flash (settings storage) chip that was supposed to be supported, but wasn't tested.  It doesn't get erased properly.  Developers couldn't recreate the issue because it only happened with some clone CC3D's.  There is documentation and fixed firmware for 16.09 and several versions of next here:
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=4912.0

Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2021, 12:07:13 pm »
Thanks very much for the reply.This particular CC3D Atom was programmed previously using the Wizard for a quad I was building.It saved ok then so just assumed I was doing something wrong during this programming session.Before I start during each session the firmware is erased and upgraded to start from scratch.

Re: Librepilot on Trex450 using CC3D controller
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2021, 10:38:48 am »
Reflash same stock firmware and erase settings doesn't fix the erase settings issue that I linked to.  You need the modified firmware from the linked thread.