[blvdbuzzard]

Well I had given up on the CC3D.  I could not load Libre, was un flyable on OP.  Was not even good for a paper weight.

I read where you select upgrade with the board unplugged. i tried it and was able to load Libre on it.  So I went through the wizard, got everything setup per the wizard, radio and all. 

First test flight was on a windy day, 15 mph winds gusting to 25mph.  Not the best day for a test flight.  But we were flying my brothers Syma and it was doing OK.  The 450 quad, lifted up and it was rocking, bucking, forward, backward, side to side.  Only yaw and throttle seemed stable.  So I landed after a minute or so.  Thought it was the wind and me.

Just came in from flying it again, winds were 1 to 2 mph, so pretty calm.  Same issue but less.  It is like it is fighting itself.  It acts like it is over correcting for any movement then over corrects from the over correction. 

I have nothing plugged in, no GPS, telemetry, nothing but the ESC's.  Looking for a starting point to trouble shoot this.

In GCS it shows the compass is 90 degrees off?  Not sure that is the problem or is the problem?  Board is facing east, yet GCS shows it facing north.

After the problem with the CC3D and OP, I ended up getting a PX4.  So I have another quad and trying the CC3D again.  I do have (2) of the Revo Nano's, may try one of them?

Thanks.

Buzz.

[mazevx]

So at first a cc3d hasn`t got a compass/mag onboard you should ignore this.
Did you perform calibration of gyro and acc? Is the board alignment correct (arrow on board facing forward) or did you set alignment correction?
If all this is done right lower your pid values and try again very carefully or use txpid and easytune.
Maybe there are to much Vibrations, did you check that?
If it`s not a problem for you, try using the revo nano, to see if the cc3d has some hardware problem or not.

[blvdbuzzard]

Yes arrow is pointing forward, triple checked that one.  First time I had it turn 90 degrees.  No alignment correction, that I know of?  I have the CC3D mounted with two layers of gel double sided tape.  I went through the wizard and did what it said to do, calibrated there, is there another calibration I should have done?

Thinking of taking it out of the plastic case to see if it is moving inside the case?

I will pop it off and try the Revo, easy enough.  Just double sided tape

Seems smooth, have not done any vibration recording.  Everything is balanced? 

Will have to wait a few days, blowing out side in the 30 to 40's, raining, so no flying for me.

Thanks for the help.

Buzz.

[TheOtherCliff]

It could be any of several things.  If you can fly it at all (a whole minute), it is good sign.

You should be using fast responding ESC's and have it configured to update the ESC's fast too.  ESC's should be capable of and configure to use 490hz PWM or faster.  If you change this, the ESC's must be recalibrated.

ESC's must be calibrated.

You should use the stock flight mode (Attitude mode).

You should have identical motors (and ESC's and ESC firmware) on all arms.

You should use identical props on all arms, some are reverse direction, but they should be the same style, just a mirror image.

Beware of Pilot Induced Oscillation. 

[blvdbuzzard]

All motors are motors are the same, props are the same, ESC same order same brand same amp rating, Hobbywing 30 amp.  When I did have it in the air, it seemed smoother when I was giving input, when it had a command, it did not oscillate as much. 

I am not fond of the collates the motors came with.  I prefer the bolt on type.

Weather has been bad, high winds, snow, ice, rain, more high winds.  Have been grounded for over a week.

I have my Revo setup and waiting.  If I get the same oscillations with it, I have issues with the frame, motors, props or vibrations.  I may be able to try it this Sunday.  Winds are suppose to drop to below 10mph.

Thanks.

Buzz.

[blvdbuzzard]

After trying all the suggestions here and other places, I swapped out the CC3d for a Revo Nano.  Well it flies.  Not super stable but easy enough to control and will at least stay in the air.  It does drift and yaw and is on the touchy side but it does fly with the Revo on board.  So I may just have a bad CC3d board.

I do have (2) of the Revo nanos to mess with.


Buzz.

[jbarchuk]

Previously you said 'I have the CC3D mounted with two layers of gel double sided tape.'

After trying all the suggestions here and other places, I swapped out the CC3d for a Revo Nano.  Well it flies.  Not super stable but easy enough to control and will at least stay in the air.  It does drift and yaw and is on the touchy side but it does fly with the Revo on board.  So I may just have a bad CC3d board.

Go take a look at the tens of thousand of multirotor images on the net. If a few of them use double sided tape I'd bet none of them use gel. The FC needs to be as tightly bound as possible to the frame as possible. The only feedback the FC has about aircaft motion and attitude is through the frame. The gel is a -damper- between the frame and the FC. The FC is getting in a sense a 'time delay' report of the aircraft change in attitude as commanded by the FC. The FC is ALWAYS 'flying behind' the aircraft. That will certainly cause oscillations.

The 'flying behind' with oscillations thing... That's exactly what a trainee pilot looks like. The pilot controls the aircraft only waaaay after the aircraft has made some new bobble or bounce caused by turbulence. The trainee pilot is -reactively- flying the aircraft, rather than -anticipating- what it will do and flying in front of the aircraft. There is constant overcorrection-overcorrection-overcorrection which results in roller coaster motion rather than flat motion.

The FC flying 'reactively' has noooo chance of ever stopping the oscillations because it's a physical issue not a pilot or software issue.

The Revo may fly a little better because the CPU is much faster and is flying 'less behind' the oscillations, but they're still there.

[blvdbuzzard]

Interesting about the tape.  When I first put it in the air, I used thin, double sided tape.  It is 1/32 thick.  Did not fly, would flip, flop, dive and drop.  Longest flight was about 3 minutes.  Then it tumbled to the ground for about 25 feet.  Then I ordered the Revo Nanos.  Well that was just about the time OP went up and down in flames.  So I waited for a while before messing with them again.

The tape is the same stuff I use for the FC on my helicopters, so I thought it would be OK for this?  I will try the thin tape again.  I could make up a hard mount for either of them?  Was trying to limit the vibs.

Weather permitting, I will try again tomorrow.  I always learn some thing new.


Buzz.

[jbarchuk]

What is the origin/pedigree of the CC3D? Some are pure junk. Hobbyking for example posts pics of bare naked uncased boards. I have 2 of them and they're excellent. OTOH banggood posts pics of cased boards which is a tad suspect because it half-implies they have something to hide. If yours is not GK or BG then please post a pic of the top of the board, and the bottom if it's not to hard to manage.

The re-engineered boards aren't necessarily bad because many people have good luck with them, but there are instances where other have very weird problems.

Double sided tape is not a good idea for FC over the long term. Boards and weather get hot -- tape can soften and shift.If you really need to go with tape the best I've seen is Aleenes Fabric Tape. (Used to be only at Joann Fabrics but now at many other sources such as Michaels.) It's a kind of super duper rubber cement, a very thin layer applied to wax paper. I've used it to attach servos to foam in 20oz planes. The only one that failed recently after about 3 years was because the solvent in the rubber cement eventually attacked the foam and the top surface let go. For non-foam surfaces it ought to last nearly forever. But again it can shift, and -nothing- is more secure and lightweight than a nylon screw.

[sasquad]

forget that "gel " stuff. It is for receivers not flight controllers with gyros in them. The flight controller will "wiggle" enough to throw off the gyros. I mount mine on plastic standoffs and have never had an issue. You said the first time it flipped on you using thin double sided tape. You also told us that you had the boeard mounted o 90 degrees off for the first flight. The board being 90 off made it flip, not the tape. Go back to a firm and stable mount with the correct offset for how you've mounted the board. do all the calibrations, and it will be fine.

[TheOtherCliff]

Props MUST be balanced well, and also must track well (not an upper blade and lower blade when seen from the side at low throttle).

The "direct mount" vs. "anti-vibration mount" is a constant discussion.  As long as the anti-vibration mount returns to the same place after being moved, it is fine.  Double decker quad kits are generally built with the motors connected to the lower layer and the upper layer (where FC is mounted) attached via anti-vibration mounts.

[blvdbuzzard]

Well that stinks.  I had a long long reply typed up with pictures.  Says Attachments could not be saved and wiped out all I typed.

I will put a short version this time.

Yes I balanced everything, props, bells.  Props track true, two were bad and I tossed them

I will make a new mount this weekend.  I will bolt it down with nylon screws and nuts out of the case.

Is one place better to get them than another?  I am not fond of HK.

Thanks for all of the help.

Buzz.

[f5soh]

Looks using big regulators

Other pcb side ?

[blvdbuzzard]

Ugh.  With wiping out of the first reply I forgot to post the second picture.

Buzz.

[blvdbuzzard]

I was able to test my CC3D after remounting it on stand offs instead of the double sided tape I had been using.  I was told the reason my CC3D was not stable, would go into a funky chicken dance of death was the double sided gel tape I was using.

I ordered the plastic stand offs, screws and nut set.  I drilled the holes in the upper frame and mounted the CC3D to the stand offs.

I went through the vehicle setup wizard for the 100² time. 

it was such a perfect day.  Had a bunch of flight with my planes.  My 3 chargers were running all day long.  I had flown my Cessna, Cruiser, Giles 202, Cypher, drove my Revo 3.3.  Total R/C day.  It was calm, good temps too.  I set the CC3D quad on the table, plugged in the battery, waited for every thing to set.  Picked it up, walked out a bit, set it down, armed, gave a little throttle, lifted up in the perfect stable hover.

This was the most stable the CC3D has ever been.  It hovered there with me holding my Tx in one hand over my head.  It just sat there.  I was amazed at how stable it was.  I was freaking out.  I get it up a little higher, fly it out a bit. bring it back, get it higher about 75 feet or so.  Still stable as can be.  I do a gentle circle.  I am really liking how this thing is flying.

I am about 50 feet out, 50 feet up.  I bring it towards me, descending, it goes into the funky chicken dance of death.  It is rocking back and forth, side to side, you can hear the motors revving up and down.  Just a seizure.  Rolls over at about 10 feet and lands upside down.  Only real damage was a broken prop.

Not sure what is wrong, it has done this from day one.  It either lifts off into the chicken dance or is unstable and wobbles until it crashes or I land it.  I am thinking I just have a bad board.  It was an impulse buy on Amazon.  I have (2) of the REAL actual Revo Nano's on hand.  I think I am pretty much done with this CC3D.

Buzz.