LibrePilot Forum
Users => Vehicles - Helicopters => Topic started by: suzali on January 11, 2016, 07:13:36 pm
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Hello,
I'm new here, just posted in 'Introduce Yourself'
Set up a 450 clone heli from scrath.
All worked well, thanks to your videos and turtorials. (Thank you !!)
But I have the following problem:
All controls work, can hover a little but only in manual mode for pitch and roll. (Rate on yaw is ok)
If I choose any other mode like rate or attitude and spin the motor up, it suddenly dies. Not at a specific point, but always roughly above 25 % throttle.
Sometimes even the collective goes all negative. Afterwards I have to arm again. But no chance to spin the motor really up. As initially said: no problem in manual mode. :-\
Hopefully waiting for useful hints,
Albrecht
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If it can be done safely, then right after it drops, without doing anything else, plug the USB into the GCS and see if there is an alarm in System Health box on the Flight Data page.
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thx, will try that tomorrow & report here.
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Post your uav and perhaps we can find the trouble.
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Here comes the uav
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Three questions:
Did you do manual calibration? And if so did you have all the defaults set? Throttle and Pitch curves- under Inputs default in TX. No expo, no DR, no tall (revo ) mix. (Be careful to move your sticks along on axis only during calibration.)
What happens in system under HW settings if you change the neutral value for channel one to 902 instead of 947?
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Did you do manual calibration?
Yes, multiple times. (do you mean RC-Input?)
And if so did you have all the defaults set?
I don't know, which defaults you mean, or where to set them? I started with a "clean configuration"
Throttle and Pitch curves- under Inputs default in TX. No expo, no DR, no tall (revo ) mix. (Be careful to move your sticks along on axis only during calibration.)
Yes, all done exactly as described.
What happens in system under HW settings if you change the neutral value for channel one to 902 instead of 947?
When calibrating the system sets the 947 value itself. If I change this to 902, I can't arm anymore.
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I just attached the heli via usb to the gcs when spinning up:
1. correction: other than described before, I do not have to arm after the shutdown.
If I leave the throttle in the position where the motor stalled, it starts spinning again after about 2-3- seconds.
2. I get two shortly visible messages in the system health panel:- RC INPUT: warning One of the following conditions....
- EVENT : There are problems with UAV object events or callbacks
Again: I can spin up and even fly (a little) in manual mode
Hope these messages will help, there is no cc3d-onboard memory to extract?
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More questions:
Did this motor/ESC setup work before you tried CC3D? Is the ESC the right amperage? I tried an CC18 on a 22 amp motor once and it behaved about like you are describing.
You can connect your radio to the ESC without using the CC3D board to test ESC / motor.
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Yes, it worked before. I use a 40 Amp ESC.
I connected ESC directly, no problem. Same in manual mode (pitch & roll).
Do I have to do an ESC calibration in CC3D ?
Is the following a mistake ????
- I use the left tx stick (up/down) for collective but for throttle I use a potentiometer on an extra channel
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That sounds evil to use TX like that. Yes have TX do all calibrations.
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Sorry, I don't quite understand.
Must I use throttle and collective simultaneously?
On other helis without a flightcontroller I have a switch for motor on/off or idle1 and idle2.
Why are there two channels in CC3D, one for throttle and one for collective?
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Maybe they have 2 channels to keep motor speed and pitch independent of each other.
I never got the transmitter wizard to work but manual calibration works for me. With TX defaults-clean setup try to go through "Manual Calibration" with normal set up: channel 1 =throttle, 5= gear and 6= collective. You might be tricking the CC3D software with your throttle setup. I don't know.
After I do "Manual Calibration" I normally reset Channel Neutral values for 1 and 5 closer to Channel Minimum. When I forget that step I get a jumpy swash.
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Ok, I just changed / concluded the channels.
Throttle and collective have the same input.
New calibration...
...and the final test...
nothing has changed :-[
Same behavior in auto mode, everything normal in manual.
This really drives me crazy >:(
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Yes. frustration. I just checked your UAV again.
What happens if you raise the neutral value on collective a little ?
And the low value to just above the low on throttle?
I keep neutral value just a couple of points higher than low. on both throttle and collective.
What TX & RX? maybe someone else has matching equipment...
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When you calibrate your TX do you switch flight modes--Normal, IU1 and IU2?
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No, I didn't. I dont have any different flightmodes programmed in the tx in this phase of testing.
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Those health errors deserve a closer look.
Do you use always armed for one flight mode and a normal arming for the other mode?
The only reasons I can think of that you would get this motor glitch (and even negative collective) in one mode and not the other are:
- The FC reboots in the bad mode.
- The channel positions themselves were causing errors. This might be possible if one end of the mode switch was close to an invalid value and the problem mode was on the invalid value.
- The channel positions add up to an invalid value. This used to happen with old PPM radios if the sum of all the pulses in the pulse train was too long. I have an old RC brand 1 Tx and brand 2 Rx that have this problem.
- The glitchless mode ignores the error. When you are running it in "manual" are you also "always armed"? Really a stretch here.
You could look at Firmware -> FlightTime. If it goes to zero right after the glitch, the FC rebooted.
You could set up some GCS scopes to watch things like:
- all ManualControlCommand.Channel (may jump to invalid values).
- SystemStats.EventSystemWarningID ???
- StacksMonitor, see if any non-zero stacks go to zero right in that time frame
It may be a hardware problem. I don't like to say that. Is this an OP CC3D or a clone, and if clone, where did you get it? I trust OP CC3D's. I have heard of a very few bad CC3D clones.
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What happens if you raise the neutral value on collective a little ?
And the low value to just above the low on throttle?
Have done all this, no change :-(
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Do you use always armed for one flight mode and a normal arming for the other mode?
No arming in all modes by 'yaw right'. I never use always armed.
- The channel positions add up to an invalid value. This used to happen with old PPM radios if the sum of all the pulses in the pulse train was too long. I have an old RC brand 1 Tx and brand 2 Rx that have this problem.
I use a Lemon dsm2 Rx and a Turnygy 9x with OpenTX 2.0. I'll try another tx today.
You could look at Firmware -> FlightTime. If it goes to zero right after the glitch, the FC rebooted.
Will check next time
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I'm just wondering about the yellow sign:
(http://)
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I think I'll go crazy >:(
Reinstalled FW.
Changed TX and RX.
No change at all :'(
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1) I looked at your UAV file. seems good to me, to rule out your CC3d Hardware is not defective... do you have a quad to try it on... heli setup is always tricky, quad setup is straight forward.
2) i have attached my trex compatible UAV file, but this is for open pilot ver 15.02.02. if you are willing to use open pilot firmware you can upload this uav. throttle and collective on same stick. arm- roll-right, . this file is guaranteed to fly,(no 3D flying though) i have been flying since July 2015
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thx SamSam.
I don't want to use my Hexacopter for experiments with maybe faulty hardware ::)
I'll go the second way using the openilot fw.
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Problem is gone with openflight fw :-\
I had orderered a new CC3D, as they are very cheap meanwhile at aliexpress (less than 10 EUR). It came today. Build it in, flashed librepilot FW and configured it for my heli. Believe it or not: same old problem with stalling motor in automatic mode. So I can definitely say my board was not faulty.
I was so happy finding librepilot, now it looks as if I'll have to go back to openpilot without any support :( >:( :'(
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I just loaded your UAV onto a spare board.
go into System / HW / Channel Number and switch channel 5 and 6. 5 should be flight mode and 6 collective. You may have to redo Manual Calibration or something else to make that work, I don't know.
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There are some guys out there that have working setups. One way to figure this out would be to start with a working UAV file (as absolutely few things changed as possible to start with) and change a few things at a time until the problem showed up. Then change those one at a time and figure out exactly what change causes the problem.
From all the very strange things that happen (collective goes negative, motor stops, motor restarts without moving the Tx stick, momentary system health warnings, etc.) it sounds like it could even be a program crash / reboot. CC3D is very low on memory, and I'm not aware of what has and has not been tested for "out of memory" with some of the extras (e.g. Camera Gimbal, GPS, TxPID, etc.) that are available.
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@daveapplemotors: just changed channels --> same result >:(
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How about grabbing one of my UAV files. I am using satellites but do you want me to get a recent radio UAV? I switch to sats recently.
What ever file you use:
Before you connect the flight battery change all the System / Actuator Settings / Channel Max values to 1650 if over 1800 and up to 1350 if they are lower. Same for Channel Min values. Increase them gradually while working in System with flight battery connected. (I don't like the Swash Leveling routine in Configuration / Vehicle because it crashes servos at top speed).
OR
Copy and paste your Max, Neutral and Min values for the first 4 channels.
Then
do Configuration / Inputs / Manual Calibration of TX
If you change only those data it should work.
I feel your pain. I spent a week or two on my first CC3D board last May before I could test fly.
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How about grabbing one of my UAV files. I am using satellites but do you want me to get a recent radio UAV?
Thx. I'll give that a try. Please attach / send a UAV.
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Believe it or not, problem solved ;D
It had nothing to do with the uav.
It was a voltage or better ampere problem. The brushles esc, that I was flying with all the time only has 2 A for the bec. So I build in a second bec for testing and my problems are gone.
What I'm still wondering about: why only in non manual mode and why without any issue with openpilot firmware. Is there a kind of a software fuse in librepilot FW ???
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Good on you man, Congratulation!
When you get a UAV, one that flies even a little bit, post it please to the UAV thread. I posted 3 there already. Anyone can download one, modify it to suit, and getting started quickly.
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When you get a UAV, one that flies even a little bit, post it please to the UAV thread.
I'd love to do so. But at the moment i don't have a flyable helicopter, it's more like a rodeo bull. I'm desparately searching the net for libre pilot or open pilot pid tuning videos. The TxPID explanation in the user guide is too difficult for me to understand (my english isn't that good :( )
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Well.. I put a setup youtube video, on "CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis " thread. see if that of any help...
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TXPID isn't too difficult:
BUT, You can change only one parameter at a time. When I used it I had to land to make changes anyway so I quit using TXPID.
Instead I use 3 Banks for comparison. I compare only only one axis (Pitch, Roll or Yaw) at a time. Tuning goes fast that way.
I tried Bluetooth but couldn't communicate. That would be nice to have a friend inputting parameters while flying.
And go ahead and post a UAV that flies "like a bucking bronco". We may be able to help with tuning...
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Thx for the idea using the banks for comparison :)
This, the weather (freezing below 0 centigrade but absolutely no wind), 5 fully loaded lipos, a laptop and enough time made today abeautiful morning to me.
My 450 helicopter is flying. Great, happy!!!
Did the PID-tuning in advanced mode.
It flies fine now in Attitude, Rattitude, Rate and Weak Leveling modes. I personally don't like Virtual Bar.
Attached is the UAV file.