LibrePilot Forum

Users => Vehicles - Helicopters => Topic started by: soncep on January 02, 2016, 09:19:06 pm

Title: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: soncep on January 02, 2016, 09:19:06 pm
***  Please disconnect all 3 wires from your ESC before you start this procedure...  I love to watch fail videos, but it would a shame it's because of this set of instructions...
***  Please, if you crash your helicopter because of theses instructions and feel you need blame me. 1st, don't blame me, 2nd, go buy a pre build, pre configured helicopter, ideally a Coax one because you are not ready for hardcore open source community supported hardware and software like this...

Hi, after searching around and finding bits and pieces of information on how to set-up a heli with a cc3d.  I offer you a more or less complete recepie on how to set it up.

For the purpose of this set-up, I am using an Align 450 Sport with a Hobby King flybarless conversion kit.
(http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/catalog/14923(1).jpg)
The servos are MKS DS92 for the swashplate and a DS95i for the tail.
The reciever is an Orange RX DSMX satellite reciever connected to the flexi port with a slight mod.  (Picked up 3.3V off the board for the + on the satellite receiver)
(http://opwiki.readthedocs.org/en/latest/_images/CC3D-top-300.png) (Look on the top right of this picture where you can get 3.3V)

Here are the steps.


Guys, I know it's not complete, but I will keep writing as I have more time...[/list]
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: soncep on January 03, 2016, 06:13:18 pm
Small Update.  There are 2 bugs(I believe) in the 15.09 firmware I am using that stop me from getting the heli working.

1st bug is the arm sequence doesn't seem to work.  I tried many combinations and none work...

2nd bug is the swashplate roll control is reversed.  Pitch works good, yaw works good, roll is reversed both on my remote and in the controllers's software that stabilizes the helicopter.  When I nudge the frame right, the swash tilts to the right.  When I go full right, the swash goes left.

On this bug, I checked the HITL and everything is good... The sticks move like on my remote, and the horizon is moving correctly.

Maybe it's time to downgrade to 15.02.02?
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on January 04, 2016, 03:29:49 am
15.09 works for me but yes the channels are different. Use my UAVs if you want a starting point.
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: TheOtherCliff on January 04, 2016, 09:18:43 pm
Hmmm...   Where did I see someone post about that and say something about reducing the range on something to fix it?

A good clear documentation of the issue and work around would help in getting Jira (bug tracking) and fix implemented.  :)
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on January 05, 2016, 03:01:25 am
I just saw your bug thing about arming. I am able to arm.

I use 'pitch aft' and the Throttle Hold. I haven't mapped Low throttle in "Normal" mode low enough, I guess.
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: SamSam on January 05, 2016, 03:41:00 am
In order to "ARM" your throttle PWM has to be below a certain level. Center all your trims in the transmitter and calibrate it in the ground station. Good starting point is to re-set your model and start all over. Also make sure all the transmitter channel "reversing" set to "normal". you need to select heli program with single servo. do not use any transmitter mixing.

there are 2 places you can reverse "roll"  Input page  Check the box on Roll Reverse, this way it will change both servo directions. after its done reverse a single "Roll" servo in the output page. you have to repeat this process until you get correct servo direction.  see attached pics..
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: warchief on February 11, 2016, 02:04:14 pm
hi guys i cant even select heli..... my vehicle type selection (the current version only provides functionality for multirotors.fixed-wing aircraft and ground vehicle.............(HEEELLLPPPP)....got 15.9
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: suzali on February 11, 2016, 02:51:27 pm
Thats quite normal, there has never been a wizard for helicopter.
You'll have to build it from scratch and use the tutorial / videos provided.
Maybe you shoul download a uav file and start working and editing it.
Don't forget to use a landing gear  ;)
If you then have further questions be sure to get help here!
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: warchief on February 12, 2016, 01:31:17 am
you nsay on step 5 tell the board its going to fly a heli.... i have heli there but i cant select it
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: lrweber on March 18, 2016, 06:13:46 pm
After some inactivity I am trying to add a CC3D Atom to a HK450 with a HK flybarless kit.  I have a Turnigy TGY9 transmitter connected to a Turnigy 8 channel receiver.  I have connected 4x9 gram servos to the Atom to confirm that something is happening.  I did make that happen and so far have not "fryed" any servos.  I have some confusion about setting up my transmitter. Should I set it up for ACRO mode and use LibrePilot to make all the helicopter swashplate conversions, or should I set it to Heli3-1 mode which is the 3 servos at 120 degrees connected to swashplate?  I have seen discussions talking about both possible configurations.  Would appreciate any guidance from anyone with similar configurations.  Lynn, Austin, TX
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 18, 2016, 08:42:02 pm
Start with someone's uav file and modify it to fit your equipment.

You will change :
Port Settings on the Hardware page in Configuration
Accel and Gyro settings --  -1 becomes +1 or vice versa on Accel and Gyro Scale.
Actuator settings --servo travel-- Start with conservative numbers so you don't wreck servos. max 1700, neu, 1522, min 1350
Manual control settings -- radio outputs for a radio. Or a satellite numbers if you use a sat.
Rates-- in Stabilization--Be sure that your manual rates are at least 360. I use 540 and 570 total.
Control Loop (PID) numbers in Stabilization on up to 3 banks for 3 axes for inner and outer loop--lotsa numbers.

I attached someone else's UAV --HK450, DX6i, radio not sat. No guarantees whatsoever.

My HK250 / Nano Revolution (think GPS)is connected to my laptop wirelessly with OPlink software and a couple of small 433mHz radios--OPlink Mini Ground and Air. I got help very quickly on this forum after a frustrating couple hours internet search for how to connect OPlink

And soon I am trying a bluetooth connection to another CC3D board.
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: lrweber on March 18, 2016, 09:49:40 pm
Dave, thanks for the quick reply.  Sorry I may sound retarded, but could someone tell me how to download and install a uav file?  I see all the references to them in many discussions.  Lynn, Austin
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 18, 2016, 10:36:43 pm
If your computer and heli are connected to the GCS (ground control station) you can import or export files--top left of page.

Save / Export a from your CC3D to share. I name my files chronologically so that I can find an old one quickly.
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: lrweber on March 20, 2016, 12:35:18 am
I know this is basic, but I really need to get my transmitter setup right before I can make any progress on my CC3D setup.  I have a Turnigy 9X transmitter which I have setup for helicopters and various planes.  Eight different models possible.  For the CC3D, should I set it up as an ACRO plane and let LibrePilot do the translation to a flybarless swashplate helicopter, or should I select the HELI1 option?  This is supposedly a single servo option.  When I connect the Atom to my receiver, I assume the six receiver outputs go to the six Atom inputs in order?  Then I go to the Configuration tab and make the Atom inputs have the same function as the receiver outputs?  Does someone have a UAV file that is similar to a Turnigy Transmitter driving a HK450 helicopter?  Seems like I am asking for someone else to do all the work, but after spending hours I do not seem to be making any progress.  Any help much appreciated.  Lynn, Austin
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 20, 2016, 12:52:30 am
Hey Lynn

Single servo heli
this guy gets 6 flight modes on Turnigy 9x: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5cyrLZzr3g

Don't assume that inputs go in order.

Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: lrweber on March 20, 2016, 05:22:44 am
Thanks Dave.  Actually I have my TX set up with 6 flight modes for an APM7 drone.  And I have an old TX that works OK on a HK450 with a flybar and tail gyro.  But am having trouble figuring out how to add the CC3D Atom to my helicopter. Hope that someone with similar equipment will give me the hint that makes it all fit together.  Lynn, Austin
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: JamesPal on March 20, 2016, 08:12:38 am
EDIT: Please disregard this question. I have figured out I skipped the swash plate leveling procedure. That sets the servo travel, min and max. Skipping this step will leave your travel setting at zero.

Dave, I'm following along, your instructions are good. THX for putting them together. Everything seems to be OK until I get to the outputs. I'm using a Turnigy 9XR PRO with the OrangeRX module and RX. It is TAER. I have the HK250 with the HK FBL.

I have followed your directions and it makes sense to me. Thank you for that. I have setup from scratch twice and used your .uav file and I'm arriving at the same results. The problem is the servos and speed control do not respond the TX, but they do respond to the gyro/accelerometers.

I don’t understand this:
…I go to the Configuration, Output, Bank Channels and set this:  1(1-3) 330Hz PWM, 2(4) 330Hz PWM, 3(4,7-8) 50Hz PWM.  Then in the Min and Max I set Chan 1,2,3 at (Min: 1450, Max: 1550), 4 at (Min: 700, Max: 800), 5 at (Min: 1200, Max: 1300).  Once this is done, I hit save…
Why are you limiting the usec like that?

I’m using Turnigy TGY-213C servos on the swash plate. They are 1520/330 Mhz 900us – 2100us. The tail servo is a Futaba S3153, I’m not entirely sure about the frequency, but I have read the counter clockwise/pulse traveling is 1520-1900usec and the 45 Deg. one side pulse traveling is 400usec. It is a 60 degree servo so I think it is a 1000 to 2000us servo.

I was able to get some control movement out of your .uav file, but the controls were incorrect. By the time I got it edited none of the controls worked. I a bit lost, any idea?
THX- JimP
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 20, 2016, 02:09:14 pm
G'Morning Jim,

You are welcome. I hope you fly soon.

My guess is that you lost cyclic control after spending time in Config / Vehicle / Basic Settings or Swash Leveling The servos still react to heli movement but not to the sticks on your TX, right?

I recommend small servo numbers to start with so that you don't damage something especially in the Swash Leveling routine. If you use that routine you must do a 'Jerry save*' otherwise you lose all servos.

If the right servo went 2100 all the way up and the left servo went 1000 all the way down you might damage something. To start try these: 1300, 1522, 1700 for cyclics, and use 1000, 1522, and 2000 for throttle and pitch. When you get cyclic movement with conservative numbers be sure the servos all go the same direction. Reverse a servo by swapping min and max in either System /  Settings /Actuator Settings-- Channel Max, Channel Min OR Config / Output . Once you have servo directions correct edit those numbers until you are happy with swash level min. neu. and max. Test them live in Config / Output.

Oh, and be careful with servo frequencies! If the ESC or any servo gets warm lower the frequency. I have ruined a few parts with incorrect frequencies. My poor human brain can't got faster that 50 cycles / second anyway, now, although I am sure I was faster when I was young;)

*Jerry save= After Vehicle / Swash Leveling routine save first with "3 servos 140 degrees" and then again with "3 servos 120 degrees".
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: lrweber on March 21, 2016, 04:21:58 pm
Dave, think I am getting closer.  Went back and changed my radio to 1 servo heli and reconnected my Atom inputs to match receiver outputs.  My throttle is channel 3.  Now looking for a .UAV file for a HK450 as a starting point.  Found several for 250s in the "post uav file here" section but nothing for a 450.  I see several references to Baseline UAV files in YouTube but no link to actual files.  I am running a Taurus 9x radio to control a HK450 FBL conversion.  Don't want to wipe it out on the first flight.  Can you point me in the right direction?  Thanks, Lynn, Austin
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 21, 2016, 10:55:43 pm
Try a 250 file. or ???
Someone sent this attached a while back. I do not know if it is any good. It is Spektrum but HK450 at least. It should be a starting point anyway.

Don't be in a big hurry to fly. Check everything 3 times. Put on cheap blades, too.
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: DBader on March 23, 2016, 07:29:35 pm
Hi Dave. I am setting up a Blade 450 3D with a Tarot split lock DFC head. My Tx is a DX6i. I am using the Revo Mini. I have loaded the first uav file you supplied 'hk450_dx6i_v3_no_errors.uav'. Is the latest one '160307_hk450_dxi6.uav' a more mature starting point?
If I am correct the head you are using is not DFC. Is this likely to have a significant impact of settings, in particular I am thinking of the PID settings?
What you have written makes sense to me, but I am now about to swap heads over and get my hands dirty, and who knows what I will come across!
I now need to recheck what you have said about DX6i setup.
Thanks for all the advice.
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 23, 2016, 07:39:04 pm
Those uav files are not mine. They came from another forum member. I fly 250s.

If one works then modify to be yours.
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on April 07, 2016, 04:13:47 pm
Oh hey good people,

I might have omitted this tip:

Start tuning at low RPM because it is easier.

When heli is stable then turn up the throttle gradually and continue tuning probably lowering PIs until you get to your target head speed. If it starts to get really wonky then consider dynamic balancing, too.
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: utoedter on April 07, 2016, 06:05:16 pm
I know this is basic, but I really need to get my transmitter setup right before I can make any progress on my CC3D setup.  I have a Turnigy 9X transmitter which I have setup for helicopters and various planes.  Eight different models possible.  For the CC3D, should I set it up as an ACRO plane and let LibrePilot do the translation to a flybarless swashplate helicopter, or should I select the HELI1 option?  This is supposedly a single servo option.  When I connect the Atom to my receiver, I assume the six receiver outputs go to the six Atom inputs in order?  Then I go to the Configuration tab and make the Atom inputs have the same function as the receiver outputs?  Does someone have a UAV file that is similar to a Turnigy Transmitter driving a HK450 helicopter?  Seems like I am asking for someone else to do all the work, but after spending hours I do not seem to be making any progress.  Any help much appreciated.  Lynn, Austin

Hey Lynn,

Dont do any swashplate mixing with the taranis, thats all done inside the CC3D.  The helicopter program is not needed,  just use a normal program. Attached is my Taranis Setup, but please review the settings, because i use it on a Taranis X9E (Mode 1). Ive also blogged the helicopter setup on my website, but its written in german and you have to use a translator.

https://frickelnundmehr.wordpress.com/startseite/trex-clone-und-cc3d

Happy flying
Udo
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: kbadra on July 03, 2016, 12:06:48 am
Hello guys, I am a newbie to librepilot and even to cc3d and trying to convert an old Walkera V120ds02 micro CP heli, and at first almost everything seems to be ok up until the RC outputs configuration (it is possible to calibrate the tx transmitter inputs with no problems using 1S Lipo, also the receiver works great). But, in output configuration  nothing happens, the servos dont move...I dont know what could be the issue... already tested connecting rx and servos bypassing cc3d (and in this case all servos work great).
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: daveapplemotors on July 03, 2016, 02:44:34 pm
Welcome kbadra,

I hope you get your heli flying well.  You might get some help by reading in this thread:   https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=1588.0

You can post your UAV file so that we can look for troubles/fixes. You can export the UAV by using one of the top left tabs in Libre Pilot. 
Title: Re: Setting Up Heli with CC3D from Scratch.
Post by: kbadra on July 04, 2016, 04:26:57 am
Dave,

thank you very much!

What worked for me was the trick about the Wizard! (It does not work for me), so I had to send the max, min and neutral by Settings tab.

After the first test from that tab, it worked perfeclty, but I tried in a HK450 at first. I am trying to understand how the process works, my uav file is attached (my first success attempt).

I havent plugged the motor yet, because i still have some issues in mechanical links (the swashplate was wrongly assembled  - there are some fine tuning work to do to mechanically level the links). Asap i have fixed this issue, i`m gonna come back.