LibrePilot Forum

Users => Vehicles - MultiRotors => Topic started by: Naga on April 24, 2018, 05:44:59 pm

Title: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 24, 2018, 05:44:59 pm
I have recently purchased a King Kong 300 Hex from HobbyKing which according to the tracking has just arrived in my country and should be delivered soon.

HobbyKing state that the Hex which comes with a CC3D has been tuned by the King Kong team but obviously I am going to have to set up the Rx and Tx.

I don't know what version of OP/LP it will come with but I am hoping to upgrade to the current version of LP.

However, I don't want to lose the settings that have already been applied as I am sure the King Kong team have done a better job of tuning the CC3D for that Hex than I will be capable of as I am not that good a pilot.

I have been flying OP on several quads for a few years but this will be my first experience of LP.

Is it possible to upgrade to the current version of LP without losing all the settings?

Thanks.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: iahawk on April 24, 2018, 08:01:53 pm
Run through the setup wizard in LP and use stock settings directly from that.

It flies fine on stock LP settings for a hex
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 24, 2018, 09:04:33 pm
Thanks for reply, but I would like to keep the setting the KingKong team came up with rather than generic setting.

So again; is it possible to upgrade and keep the current settings?
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: TheOtherCliff on April 24, 2018, 09:27:10 pm
I would really recommend that you keep the current firmware version and settings until you fly it a while and get used to it.

I would guess that it will come with an old version of OpenPilot, not LibrePilot.  Ask them what version since you are waiting anyway.

It will fly with LP defaults, but setting it up will take some learning and a couple days, so play with it as it is for a while.

And no, there generally isn't a way to upgrade from one version to another.  You have to start over.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 24, 2018, 10:49:56 pm
Hi TheOtherCliff

Thanks for your reply.

That is what I thought may be the situation. It was my intention to keep the current settings since they have spent time setting the Hex up but I was hoping to migrate them over to LP.

I am pretty familiar with the old OP interface, have set up several quads using OP and was even able to successfully troubleshoot for people on the old RCGroups CC3D thread on many occasions. However I was hoping there would be a way of migrating with the settings that I was not aware of hence my post.

I have the last two versions of OP (v13 and v14) stashed away so it hopefully it will have firmware from one of those on it.

I am currently planning a new quad with unusual requirements for controlling a sound system and lights as well as rotating parts with a servo; making a Hasbro Star Wars Jedi Fighter toy fly and animating the attached R2D2 with sounds and movement of its little head. I am also planning a Bicopter using HK RotorBits components.

I already did the Star Wars Imperial Speedster with a CC3D Atom and OP v13.

As a result of these builds I have been reading through all the documentation for LP again over the last few days to refamiliarise myself with the firmware.

What an amazing piece of software you guys have developed! So flexible and capable.

You guys are the best, thanks for all the hard work you have put in, it is so appreciated!
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: TheOtherCliff on April 25, 2018, 07:07:37 am
IIRC there were two OP versions in 2015.  Three or more if you count the versions before the final bug fix versions.

IIRC the first 2015 OP version was the last OP version to support CC3D.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 26, 2018, 04:09:49 am
Cliff

I was looking at what I had installed on my PC today; a bit out with the version numbers above but I was doing it from memory.

I currently have v14.10 and 15.02 and 15.05 OP versions installed on my PC with 13.06.exe backed up on my server but not installed. 15.05 was installed on a Revolution with an additional OPLink board. I was lucky there, got one of the first clones to be released so it has the power LED in the right position and seems very well made, not like the ones with the coloured output pins around today.

So regarding the 300 Hex, it is now at the Royal Mail Depot awaiting me to pay the import duty (no problem, need taxes) and their £8 blood money for collecting the tax. In fact 3 parcels to collect so they will be squeezing £24 out of me just to collect the tax that is due. Oh lucky days.

Anyway, I should be able to sort out what version of OP/LP the Hex has installed and will post the results here for anyone else who recently bought one and needs that info.

Thanks again for your support and best wishes.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: TheOtherCliff on April 26, 2018, 07:47:53 am
I would bet OpenPilot 15.02 on the CC3D.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 26, 2018, 11:52:44 pm
Actually close, but no cigar unfortunately. Well not a usable version anyway. Good guess however.

I opened the Hex CC3 with all flavoures of GCS from OP 14.x, OP 15.02 02, and both LP 15.09 and 16.09. None of them.

Each gave an initial message that the firmware does not match reporting:

Firmware version: 20150405 15:40 (bf68cc84-e70bb517)


However, on the Firmware Tab, each report:

Bootloader v3
Firmware tag: RELEASE 15.02.01
Firmware date: 2015-04-05-15:40
Git commit hash: bf68cc84
Firmware CRC: 0

So it looks like, just to make life difficult they used something else, 15.02.01, a Next Branch perhaps?


Running OP 15.02.02 with the Hex plugged in:

The Flight Data page is responding to the Hex which is reporting flight data. All the board is Green except INPUT which is orange. The OSD correctly responds to movement of the Hex except the 3D model in the lower window is reversed and moves in the wrong direction on all axes.

The Config Page for Hardware shows it is set for PWM+NoOneShot

The Vehicle Page shows set for HexcopterX but all three Mix Level sliders are at 100% where I would expect 50%.

Input Page shows an Rx has been used and calibrated as different values present for Min, Neutral and Max.

Flight Mode Switch Settings show Stabilized1-3 referring to Bank 1-3 resectively.

Output Page shows Bank (Channels) 1-4 set for 490 Hz PWM with all six motors having slightly different neutrals set at around 1173 with one noticeable lower at 1157 (dodgy unreliable motor?)

On the Stabiization Page Bank 1 has "Insane" level settings with Attitude at 130, Rate at 600 and Rate Yaw at 550. PIDs are not stock for Hex X settings.

Bear in mind that this would be invoked using Attitude, Attitude and Axis Lock for the Flight Mode Switch! Ouch!

Bank 2 is set for "Snappy" again with none stock PIDs.

Bank 3 is set for "Moderate" with stock PIDs but would be invoked by the Flight Mode Switch set for Rate, Rate and Rate for Roll, Pitch and Yaw; again not a sensible combination.

Advanced show different settings for each Bank.

So it looks like it has been setup and "Tuned" but using a GCS station which is not a standard Release Version.

I suspect that in going from GCS 15.02.01 that they used and openening it with Release version 15.02.02 has caused some reversal of the Stabilzation Banks and the models inputs.

How is anyone supposed to set up their Tx/Rx using this?

So, what do you recommend doing Cliff?
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: TheOtherCliff on April 27, 2018, 10:42:41 am
15.02 and 15.05 are the release versions, then bugs were found, and that is why there are 15.02.0x 15.05.0x etc.

Standard release procedure says that all the 15.02 versions are compatible so use the latest one to get the most bug fixes.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 27, 2018, 12:12:13 pm
So I go ahead and use 15.02.02 and just ignore the warning message even though the firmware is 15.02.01?

What if I save a uav, burn the 15.02.02 firmware on the board then import the uav back again?

Sorry to be obtuse. These things are dangerous and I don't want the mismatch in the firmware to cause a possible fly away or other possible problem.

There does seem to be a mismatch insomuch as some things are certainly reversed when I connect to the board with 15.02.01.

Several of us have bought this Hex while it was on the recent HobbyKing sale, I probably won't be the only one doing this.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: mr_w on April 27, 2018, 12:41:51 pm
Why not just start from zero with either 16.09 or next. It seems that you at least understand where things are configured and how they should look. I would not bet on HK for doing the good job with "tuning".

Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: iahawk on April 27, 2018, 06:27:51 pm
I agree with mr_w

It seems you’re making things very difficult for yourself in the setup of this hex.

As I said earlier. I started from scratch and flashed new firmware and used stock settings and it flies fine. I’ve read nothing but negative comments about the stock setup it comes with out of the box.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 27, 2018, 07:34:32 pm
I am now thinking along the same lines.

The Attitude settings seem stock and I doubt I will be flying with "Insane" settings at any time in the near future if ever! I am not that good a pilot and probably never will be, don't race and I am capable of setting it up as I want, especially now I know how it was setup by the KingKing team.

Now I have had a nose around I can see that the mild stabilised setting are just stock and where they made changes. I have also made screen captures of each of the pages.

Would the PIDS from 15.02.01 be valid in 16.09?

Thanks for all your support.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: TheOtherCliff on April 27, 2018, 07:46:29 pm
I would use the closest matching GCS version to save the factory UAV file permanently to my PC, for future reference at least.  FYI, it is a human readable text file.  Maybe make screen captures of the important configuration pages too.

Quote
There does seem to be a mismatch insomuch as some things are certainly reversed when I connect to the board with 15.02.01.
I don't recall that and it sounds dangerous.  I would at least have to verify what is going on there.  From what I recall, 15.02.02 should act just like 15.02.01, but without a bug or two.  If that is true, you should use a GCS version that matches the firmware or just install LP.

Anybody remember what the differences were in the 15.02.0x versions?  I recall that 15.02.0x was the last version of OP to support CC3D.  CC3D was removed in 15.05.

Quote
Would the PIDS from 15.02.01 be valid in 16.09?
I recall that is the time that some minor changes were made, and lately another minor change to the D term.  I don't recall enough about that to say more than to look at the changes in the default PIDs to help you guess.

...on the other hand...

This is a new guy, so instead of flying in the next day or two (with a supposedly known working configuration) he will have to learn more about configuration before getting to fly, and there may be some pitfalls for those who don't follow the instructions exactly but think they are following them.

I recall an issue with the default hex mixer, maybe that got fixed in 16.09?

The KingKong factory settings may have better PIDs.  I like flying it as it is and then some rainy weekend install the latest LP.  You get to feel how both setups fly.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 27, 2018, 11:39:29 pm
Hi Cliff.

The two things that are reversed when opening the board with 15.02.01 using GCS OP 15.02.02 is that Stabilised 1 Switch which is set for Attitude, Arttitude Axis Lock refers to Bank 1 and that has the "Insane" setting on that don't match with flying a craft in Attitude mode.

Stabilised  2 uses Rattitude, Rattitude and Rate with Cruise Control referring to Bank 2 which has Moderate settings which makes sense. Good for flips and rolls.

Stabilised 3 uses Rate, Rate and Rate and referres to Bank 3 which has the mild setting on!

So I assume the Bank 1 and Bank 3 settings are reversed. I mean, why fly Attitude with "Insane" settings or fly in Rate mode with Mild settings when Insane are programmed in???

Secondly, the Horizon on the Flight Data page correctly responds to movements of the Hex as if you are sat in the Pilots seat (I do know if the craft Banks left the horizon tilts to the right etc) but the lower 3D model (looks like ZMR) of the craft is reversed, if the craft is tail in, the model in the lower Windows shows nose in etc so that is not in sync with either the Flight Data HUD window or the model.

I already have screen shots of every page in GCS for the model.

I am going to save a uav file and put OP15.02.02 on it first and see how it looks after importing the uav again. I do have some experience with GCS and while not an expert I do have some understanding, so an intermediate user. I should be able to pick up any problems with the settings before I fly.

We may even be able to get 15.02.01 anyway, in which case problem solved. One of my buddies who has also just bought one of these has found the files but it looks like they need making, no exe available. So we may be able to get GCS 15.02.01 up and running.

Besides, half the fun of all this for me is messing with the firmware, I enjoy it, all part of the game!
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: TheOtherCliff on April 28, 2018, 05:13:19 am
Changing from version ab.cd.xx to ab.cd.yy is generally not supposed to change anything but fix a bug.  It is supposed to be so transparent that you can just flash the newer version and run it without any changes.

I would be / am very surprised if / that the "this bank goes with that flight mode position" functionality is different.  My hunch is that if you look at it again with either GCS it is the same.

It is common (for beginners at least) to set up rate mode rotation fairly slow, but to set up attitude mode rotation rates very fast.  In rate mode you want to be able to "keep up with it."  In attitude mode, you want it to get to the bank angle you are commanding as quickly as possible.  That would be an explanation for the attitude mode having fast rotation rates.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 28, 2018, 08:45:32 pm
Once again you are absolutely correct Cliff. Of course! :)

I saved the uav file, Rescued the board to go from Bootloader 3 to BL 4,  flashed from 15.02.01 to 15.02.02 and reloaded the uav. All the settings have remained the same as you predicted.

I am using the small HobbyKing OrangeRX R617xl 6 channel PPM receiver (not a Sat but Rx) which I plugged to to Pins 1,2 and 8 as I hoped to use OneShot125.

I bound the Rx to a new slot on my DX8 with 6 channels assigned to appropriate controls including Gear to Flight Mode Switch and Aux0 assigned to the knob in the Tx ready for TxPID if needed.

I changed the Input from PWM to PPM_PIN8+OneShot, ran the Tx Wizard and checked all inputs correctly responding to the Tx movements.

On the Output Page I tried to change the Output Banks to PPM.

Ran into a snag: Output Banks 1-3 accepted the change to PPM without protest but Output Bank 4 which controls motor 6 won't have it and give an error message:

"OneShot and PWMSync Output only works with receiver port settings marked with "+OneShot
When using Receiver Port setting PPM_PIN8+OneShot Bank 4 must be set to PWM".

Does this mean I cannot use OneShot125 on a Hex? Should I put it on Pin 3 instead of Pin 8? Not sure how to proceed.

Thanks.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: TheOtherCliff on April 29, 2018, 06:16:13 am
With that sort of "bugfix only" change, you don't even need to export/import, just flash and go.  Importing what you just exported is the same as doing nothing, as long as you don't erase settings while flashing.  One good thing about export/import is that during import you can scroll down the object list to make sure there are no warnings/errors.

On the Output Page I tried to change the Output Banks to PPM.

"OneShot and PWMSync Output only works with receiver port settings marked with "+OneShot
When using Receiver Port setting PPM_PIN8+OneShot Bank 4 must be set to PWM".

Does this mean I cannot use OneShot125 on a Hex? Should I put it on Pin 3 instead of Pin 8? Not sure how to proceed.

For your ESCs: Are you using PWM, PWMSync, or OneShot?  You could certainly use [email protected] if your ESCs support it.

What the GCS lets you do is the best documentation for what is possible.

Sorry that I don't do hexes or CC3D.  Hopefully someone else will chime in here.  Octos are possible, so there are other outputs (ESC signal) you could look into.
Title: Re: King Kong 300 Hex
Post by: Naga on April 29, 2018, 12:47:40 pm
For the escs, I wanted to use OneShot but for that you need PPM_PIN8+NoShot as the input but as I wrote, Output Bank4 which drives the 6th motor wouldn't accept it. A bit of a Catch 22 situation.

So I have gone back to PPN input on Pin3 and set the outputs for all the motors to [email protected] I didn't think it a good idea to have motor 1-5 on OneShot and the 6th on PWM.

So she looks good to go, everything looks fine in GCS and I am ready for a maiden flight!

Many thanks for all you help Cliff, great support and I very much appreciate you patience with me.