LibrePilot Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: cary on January 10, 2018, 06:06:11 pm
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Hello,
I have the TX set for PPM and the RX talking to the CC3D.
In Librepilot, under input "receiver activity", it shows the channels as I move them. Under "input channel configuration" I can see the values move when I move the TX sticks. This tells me the remote is for sure talking to the receiver and CC3D.
on "output". I can set the Min/Max and neutral. Changing the Neutral moves the servo/changes the motor speed. This tells me the CC3D is controlling the servos/motor so they are connected correctly.
But for some reason when I move the sticks on the remote the servos/motors do nothing.
Help please!
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Hi,
Did you check the SystemHealth panel in Flight tab ?
He may report some error like orange input related to a incomplete/bad configuration or waiting attitude estimation.
All the alarms displayed in SystemHealth will be all green.
Motor will work at all times and motor need a armed board.
If you cannot find where is the error you can post your config file after a File > Export UAV data while the board is connected.
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Thanks for your reply. The input is red, and I cant figure out why.
Attached is the file.
I would appreciate any help
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The input is red, and I cant figure out why.
Some inputs have a input type set, without channel number.
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7060)
You should use the Transmitter wizard to setup the input.
There is a known issue with Tx Wizard if you skip the Flightmode switch, so you should set a switch mapped to one output in your RC radio before starting the wizard.
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OK, I am making progress. Now everything shows green. I ran the wizard.
still no movement from the motor or servo.
New file attached.
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Still many inputs not defined in this config file.
Seems you try to use "PPM" in input tab and hardware tab shows only "PWM" input configured.
Not sure what you try to do but you are using the Custom tab to define mixers and the two outputs you defined do not have numbers on it (all to zero) so as expected there is not relation related to inputs or stabilization.
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7063)
What type of vehicle do you try to setup ?
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This is my first time using the software, or attempting anything like this, so I am a bit lost. I am not sure what those numbers even relate to.
Attached is a diagram of what I am trying to do...
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You can simply use the Vehicle wizard (big button in welcome tab), at some point select a surface vehicle like a car (reverse motor + steering servo) and all the "vehicle" setup will be done. You can use the Vehicle > Ground tab to do it by hand as well.
Next step, configure your Gimbal (https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/LPDOC/pages/2818088/Camera+Stabilisation+Configuration) and use additional Accessories for Gimbal control.
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Soooooo frustrated with the software. Sooo thankful for your help. Ran the vehicle setup wizard, which erased the transmitter setup. Now the transmitter is showing red again. If I run it for a car, it puts the motor on output 4 and the servo on 1...I need these reversed because the flightcontroller and rx get their power from the motor controller...pin 1
If I try to run the transmitter setup, it doesn't see the flightmode switch (I tried to switch it fast). If I skip this (I know u said it could cause issues), then when you are supposed to move the sticks on the screen they don't show movement.
I did some research, and a video shows changing "flightmodelnumber" in setup to 1...too bad that does not com up in a search.
Feels like constant "one step forward, one step back".
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If output are configured like that, there is a good reason: Motor output use a different bank than the bank used for servos.
I need these reversed because the flightcontroller and rx get their power from the motor controller...pin 1
I don't understand, you can get power from whatever servo connector, from receiver port or any port like Flexi/main port. There is no issue here.
If I try to run the transmitter setup, it doesn't see the flightmode switch
Take a look at post #3, you need to setup your Rc radio and add a mapping between one switch to one output.
Feels like constant "one step forward, one step back".
Every step done, you learn something.
Just think to the first step where nothing was working or configured.
Keep calm.
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By default most transmitters don't output the switches. You must read your transmitter instructions (or search for a video on the internet to help you) and configure your transmitter to actually put that switch out on a channel. You can verify this by going into the Input page where you can see the stick motion recognized. The switch will not be recognized, because it is not being sent...
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Sorry for the delay, I had company the last week.
I have everything working...to some extent. The gimbal works to automatically stabilize, and I can control it with the remote as well. Motor kill switch works perfect as well as the flight mode.
It does not try to stabilize the car at all. the steering servo just twitches back and fourth. the motor does nothing.
Suggestions?
Thanks again!
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Suggestions?
Configuration file ?
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Here is the most recent config file.
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There is something strange in your config, all inputs uses PPM and hardware tab do not have any PPM set.
Steering servo works fine in your config, is stabilized using Yaw and react as expected.
You may need to reduce Yaw PID in Stabilization tab, default values comes from multirotor defaults.
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7108)
Reversable Esc/motor need a neutral value set correctly (around 1500) in Output tab or Esc is never initialized.
In same area, i doubt the Esc range is 510 -> 2000µs
You should calibrate the esc using normal values in 1000 - 2000µs range.
Also set the Bank2 to 50Hz for motor in output4, just to be sure.
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Hi There,
Thank you for the response. I am not sure what you mean by the hardware tab does not have any PPM set. My receiver port is set to PPM. Please clarify.
The steering servo works using the remote. If I move the CC3d the servo does not try to compensate, it just jitters a lot.
For the stabilization settings bank 1, I have the sliders as low as possible...is there somewhere else I should be adjusting them?
I am attaching my config again.
Thanks again for helping!
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I am not sure what you mean by the hardware tab does not have any PPM set. My receiver port is set to PPM. Please clarify.
Ok, seems you're using a Revolution board instead of a CC3D... Look right/bottom corner the board name when board is connected ?
According to the latest config file, now you setup one flight mode [Manual] without stabilization (all manual so direct input to output) and another one [Stabilization1] where you changed Pitch/Roll to Acro+, no issue since you only use Yaw stabilization with AxisLock.
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7111)
You may need to reduce Yaw P.I.D. numbers instead of reducing rates.
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7113)
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What I am attempting to do is stabilize a rolling ball (Pic attached). This is pretty simple, a motor (In Ch1, Out Ch4) that rolls it back and forth, and a servo (In 2/ out 1) that tilts the ball.
If I pick a car/motorcycle for the vehicle wizard, then it sets the tilting servo as the yaw...which makes sense for a car but does not work for my situation. If I go to the custom vehicle tab, and change the servo from yaw to roll, the servo no longer reacts. Somehow it is locking it as yaw.
I have tried different vehicles such as v-wings, without much success.
For now please ignore the stabilization setting, I am playing trying different things. For a starting point, I just need to figure out how to make ch 1 the roll/tilt servo and not yaw.
Suggestions?
Anyone live in Phoenix AZ that I could pay for their time to meet up and program?
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If you want Rool stabilization you just need to move modify the mixer with Roll axis.
Remember the response is half than when you use Yaw because the default Roll PID numbers are almost half than Yaw PID numbers.
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7120)
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Great, thank you. I tried that before but I forgot to switch it in the transmitter settings.
So now, the forward/back and side to side is working. The forward back is smooth when tilting the ball. The side to side, regardless of any settings I Have chosen, is oscillating, hard.
I am only using the basic tab as I do not know how to set PID's and would be guessing at the numbers.
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Look post #16 above, you will need to tune now the Roll axis instead of Yaw axis to avoid oscillations.
Try to reduce the "P" term first, something like 0.00300 to 0.00150 and see if stop the oscillations.
A video should be great to show the ball in action, when tuned of course :)
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I have spent over 5 hours trying to stop the oscillating. I am beginning to wonder if the servo is trying to compensate in the wrong direction. Is there a way to change the direction of the compensation without reversing the servo direction?
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Reverse the servo in Output page.
If command using stick is fine and input page set using TX Wizard, the servo direction will be ok.
Maybe you are not changing right numbers, if you are using Attitude/Rattitude stabilization there is also the outerloop and a 2.5 number as default that may be reduced
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Thanks for the reply.
I am using Rate, and adjusting the PID as suggested. I am adjusting the inner loop. If I start with "P", anything lower than .00340 and I loose the control range from the stick on my transmitter. At this number or higher, I cannot stop the oscillation. I have spent endless hours trying to adjust the PID, with no luck.
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If you want more stick response > increase Rates = how many deg/s you want at full stick.
If you want to remove oscillation > tune PID numbers.
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Thank you, I am making progress...slowly!
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I am making good progress and finally have pretty good side to side stabilization. I have two questions:
1. To get control from the transmitter I need to adjust the outer loop. As I increase the "P" to get the transmitter to move the servo, it shifts to the side and stays there. If I keep the outer loop at 0 then I have no control from the transmitter, but the stab works well.
2. Right now it is taking 4 channels on the input to run the camera gimble. This does not seem correct...and I need the other channels for other functions. Do I have this set up correctly?
New file attached.
Thanks,
Cary
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Outer loop is needed for Attitude stabilization, see Attitude Setup (https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/LPDOC/pages/19890317/Attitude+Setup) page.
You need to tune the stabilization in Rate mode and next add a minimal value to take control in Attitude.
Currently in this config file you do not use control for Gimbal (see Input channel in Gimbal tab), anyway you just need two inputs/Accessory assuming this is a 2 axis Gimbal connected to output 2 and 3.
This means two channels for vehicle control (Throttle + Roll) and two channels for gimbal control, to be defined in Gimbal tab
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Hi f5soh,
Thanks for the reply.
Maybe I need to clarify a bit. I have the inner loop tuned....but no stick control.
If I am in Attitude mode, with outer loop at 0, everything is centered...and no stick control. If I put any number in the outer loop to gain control, it will start to shift to the side. The more I add to the outer loop the more stick control I get, but the more it shifts to the side as well.
If I am in Rate mode it automatically shifts to the side the second I engage the gyro, even with the outer loop at 0.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
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All you describe looks normal.
Be sure the board/vehicle is levelled (Attitude tab) and inputs are correctly calibrated (neutral in Input tab).
Be sure the vehicle is still during the Gyro init.
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I have done everything you described...maybe I am not understanding you.
So it is normal for the servo to offset to one side when outer loop is added??? This makes no sense, because now everything leans to one side.
I have leveled everything and made sure they are calibrated. Without the gyro everything works fine. With the gyro there is no response from the sticks. If I add to the outer loop, I get stick control but the servo offsets to one side.
Thoughts???
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Rate mode uses only the Inner loop.
Attitude mode uses both inner and outer loops.
This should explain why Attitude does nothing until with outer set to zero.
For Attitude mode think of the control as being the inner multiplied by the outer. With outer set to zero, the control always multiplies out to zero.
You should also be aware that if the aircraft is not level, but it is armed and stabilizing... the PID 'I' term causes a "windup" where it tries harder and harder to make it level. Move it from level to 5 degrees tilt left and you will see that it slowly goes harder and harder to the right. Then move it to 5 degrees right tilt and see that it winds up trying to make it go to the left.
Generally, tune inner loop in Rate mode, then leave that alone and tune outer loop in Attitude mode.
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I wanted to thank you all for the help, it is MUCH appreciated! I am finally making headway and feel as if I am getting used to how the tabs interact with one another.
Thank you!!!
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I am still a bit confused by the gimbal.
On the input tab I have to set the pitch and yaw channels to match what the transmitter is doing. Then I also have to put Accessory2 and Accessory1 to match those channels so that I have control over the gimbal. Please see the attached pics.
It seems odd that I would need to use 4 channels on the input, when I am really only using 2. Am I doing this correctly?
Also, what does the collective channel do??? I would love to use this channel for another feature, like accessory 4. On the vehicle config you can choose access 4 and 5...But I don't see a way to coordinate that with the transmitter.
In the end I need 5 channels for: Roll/pitch for the body and roll/pitch/yaw for the camera. Two more are dedicated to killing the motors and flight mode. That leaves three available channels...two eaten by the gimbal control and the other by the collective.
Thoughts???
And, as always, thank you!
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Even without a gimbal you need at very least 4 channels of control: roll (left-right bank), pitch (fore and aft bank), yaw (rudder), and throttle (up-down). It is highly recommended that you have a switch (and so a 5th channel) to allow flight mode changes.
Gimbal doesn't require a transmitter channel, but you can use one. You will need to mix these transmitter channels with the signal that stabilizes the gimbal.
In my opinion, you really only need 1 control channel and a 2D (roll-pitch) gimbal. The one control channel is up-down tilt (pitch). You don't need left-right banking (just leave the camera level left to right), and aircraft yaw works fine for camera yaw (panning) in most cases.
Collective is a second form of up-down (altitude) control where you increase blade pitch (make both blades steeper) to get more thrust. You need to understand about using both throttle and collective to control altitude on a heli.
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Thank you for the reply. I am not building a drone, so my needs are different than normal.
Here is what I need:
Body - Roll and pitch (No Yaw) - 2 channels
Gimbal with stick control - Roll and Pitch (No Yaw) - 2 Channels (4 channels?)
2 Accessory motors - 2 Channels
LED's - 1 Channel
Arming - 1 Channel
Flight Control - 1 Channel
_____________________
Total 9 channels
I have a 10 channel receiver, so I should be fine. This issue is that collective uses a channel, and the gimbal uses 4 (2 for input & 2 for control...At least the way I have it set up). This leaves me 2 short.
Thoughts?
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It's not obvious to me in some cases which channels are control channels coming from the transmitter, and which are stabilized channels that therefore must come from the FC.
Be aware that (IIRC) 16.09 only allows the FC to know about 9 channels, but of course not every RC channel must be run through the FC.
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I am making good progress. To add the extra channels I needed an expansion module. I have two questions:
1. When moving the pitch channel to one side or the other, the throttle goes forward and reverse respectively. This is NOT coming from the remote, I can look at the input on Librepilot and there is no channel value change from the remote when I move the pitch...yet the throttle goes. Any clue???
2. Is there a way to change the ramping of a motor? What I want it to do is instant on with input, then a slow down to stop.
I am attaching my file. Thanks again!!!!!!!
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1. When moving the pitch channel to one side or the other, the throttle goes forward and reverse respectively.
Normal, you set a Pitch value mixing into the Motor output
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7188)
2. Is there a way to change the ramping of a motor? What I want it to do is instant on with input, then a slow down to stop.
You can adjust the Throttle curve, but it will be the same behaviour increasing or decreasing Throttle.
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Sorry, I mis-wrote earlier.
What I meant is when I Roll it makes the motor go. So somehow Ch1 and Ch4 are mixing.
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yes, moving the pitch stick (input channel 4) changes Throttle.
Mixed result of input channel 1 and input channel 4 gives the motor result you describe.
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7190)
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7192)
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Sorry but I must be slow today.
why am I getting the mixed result???
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I'm not sure from the discussion whether you understand what the mixer does. Please don't be insulted if you already understand this.
A quadcopter has 4 controls going into it from the transmitter: roll, pitch, yaw, and throttle. The key is that each control is designed (mixed) to work without causing movement in any of the other control directions. First of all, motor spin directions alternate CW, CCW, CW, CCW and that is important for yaw to work correctly, but doesn't matter for roll, pitch, or throttle. Say you are hovering with the correct amount of throttle and want to pitch forward. You slow down the front motors (and speed up the rear motors by the same amount). Roll, yaw, and thrust movements all remain the same when you do this.
So your mixer for any particular motor will make the motor speed up or slow down when you move the control sticks. Whether it is faster or slower depends on which motor. For pitch forward, you make both rear motors faster (and front ones slower of course). For left roll you make the right motors faster. For left yaw you make the northwest and southeast motors faster (think about it, this is the magic).
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Thank you for the reply.
I am not programming a quad, but essentially a car with a camera gimbal (Controllable).
So the right stick (Input 1 & 2) will move the car forward and back, and make it turn. These functions work normally. (output 1 for steering servo, output 4 for the motor).
The left stick (Input 3 & 4) controls the camera gimbal (Output 2 & 3), this functions normally, the camera is stabilized and the stick moves the camera.
The issue is that when I roll the camera from side to side, the car moves forward to back.
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(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4066.0;attach=7194)
See the custom mixer above ^^
First the inputs are scaled to a -1,0,+1 range where 0 is the neutral and -/+1 min/max stick input
Roll / Servo output
Talking about the Roll input if you look the Custom mixer into the "Roll" line, the only cell where you find a value (127) is located in first output dedicated to a servo.
Assuming the stabilization is set to Manual this means the stick input is multiplied by 127 and give output result:
Input Roll stick * 127 = Output result
Max Roll stick give a result equal to +127
Min Roll stick give a result equal to -127
Neutral Roll stick give a result equal to zero
At output a similar scaling is applied to Output result and define the value to send to the servo, according to min/neutral/max values set in Output tab:
+127 output result means 2000µs if you set 2000µs as max in output tab.
0 output result means 1500µs if you set 1500µs as neutral in output tab.
-127 output result means 1000µs if you set 1000µs as min in output tab.
Motor / Pitch + Throttle (Please note the motor is only active while the board is armed)
Now look the Reverse motor column, you can see a first value (127) in cell related to 'curve1': This one is related to Throttle, if Throttle curve looks like a line from 0 to 1 you can just assume a linear response. This means a 1:1 translation between Throttle input and values used like the Roll example above.
There is also a 127 value in Pitch line so here is the mixed between Throttle and Pitch input you see in motor output.
Full Throttle + Min Pitch give a Motor output set as zero.
Full Throttle give +1 * 127 = 127 as output
Min Pitch give -1 * 127 = -127 as output
Result is zero (+127 - 127) so the motor receive the neutral value you set in Output tab.
Since you do not move the Pitch stick, the Throttle works as expected because the 'Pitch' result is equal to 0 when Pitch stick is center.
Now Yaw stick
For some reason you set two values for the two servo outputs dedicated to the gimbal.
Those output should not be controlled directly, but using the Gimbal module: Advanced settings -> Input channel.
** In all the explanation is didn't talk about reversed channel in Input or Output tab, this of course reverse results at some point.
First understand how the mixer works, configure the vehicle and finally configure your gimbal... just a advice.
Redo the transmitter wizard, just to be sure how the inputs are assigned and do not swap connectors in receiver.
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WOW, your explanation helped a LOT!
Maybe I'm not looking in the right area, but I could not find out how this worked. Is there a place I can research? I found the wiki is a bit lacking.
I did not realize the "Vehicle" tab numbers were only for mixing, I thought all of the channels had to have a value so that they would move. Not knowing that they only needed a value for mixing, and not knowing what the 127 meant, makes it very difficult to figure out.
Hopefully on a new revision they will add some verbiage to clarify...for instance a box next to where you enter the values that says "Channel Mixing percentage". Also, if 127 = max stick, why not label it 100? These two simple changes would have made it a lot easier to figure out what was happening.
Thank you again so much for your help!!!
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Look previous posts like this one (https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=4066.msg27606#msg27606) where i propose to use the simple way with Vehicle wizard and look how the mixer is configured. At this point you will notice the wizard set '127' values as default. Even with a value set to 100 your vehicle will works almost the same and cells allow a max value of 127.
In fact you do not need to know how mixer works but only follow a car wizard, experiment some tuning and next configure the Gimbal.
If there is something missing into the Wiki you can amend content and improve it.
Simply register to Atlassian and wrote/modify, you're welcome.
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Hello,
I did follow your suggestion to use the vehicle wizard, and it did good...but I needed to add features and to understand the program takes experimentation. Also, I am working on controlling a rolling ball, not really a car, so using the car for the vehicle wizard does not work because it sets the steering servo up on yaw, when I need it on tilt. If I choose Motorcycle, that does not work either because it loads a one direction motor.
Seeing numbers like 127 created confusion as there is no relationship as to what the number is, other than as I adjusted it the speed went up and down.
Please do not take offense, it was not meant that way, I was just trying to explain that as a newbie it is difficult to work through the program and understand how everything works together. I will look into helping on the wiki, hopefully I can add an outsiders perspective.
Thank you again for all of your help!
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I'm getting close but having some strange issues.
First, if I am going forward and stop quickly which causes a forward to back rock, everything cuts out for a few seconds and the motors disable. Sometimes I need to power down and restart to get everything working again.
Second, most of the time when I start up the system (Remote on or off, stab turned on or off) the gimbal shakes like crazy for ~20 seconds then stops, other times it just continues to shake. Restarting several times it will eventually start up with no shaking.
Any suggestions? File attached.
Thank you!
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Forward and back rocking causing motor shutdown:
Could you be at the limit of RC range where motors stop when RC signal is lost? Do your motors have a hard time starting up from stopped? Any intermittent signal (a single ESC signal wire, any Rx to FC signal wire) will cause shutdown. Oscillation causes different motor speed. If you have an intermittent connection then bad vibration may make it fail. Connecting some form of telemetry and logging the flight when it happens would probably show what is going wrong.
Gimbal shakes:
Is the gimbal derived from "CC3D built in gimbal" commands or a completely external gimbal? If CC3D gimbal be aware that moving the gimbal moves the quad in the opposite direction which may cause oscillation and you may need lower CC3D PIDs. If external, then your camera is too heavy or too light or not mounted to balance the camera (forcing gimbal to work too hard), and changing gimbal PID (using gimbal mfg software, we don't know about that) is the solution.
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Thanks for the reply.
I am not flying a drone, I am building a rolling robot. I can drive it around normally with no issues, less than 15 feet from me in my garage. There is more than enough torque and voltage for the motors. If I roll in one direction then suddenly stop, this is when it shuts down the motor. I will look at the telemetry.
For the gimbal. I am using the CC3D built in gimbal commands. When I first power on the unit, it instantly starts shaking. This is with the remote off and PID's set to manual. At this point nothing is moving, just the gimbal is shaking like mad...but the ball is perfectly still. Turn it on and off a few times and it will start without shaking.