LibrePilot Forum

Users => Vehicles - Helicopters => Topic started by: Jamukah on December 05, 2015, 08:24:01 am

Title: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Jamukah on December 05, 2015, 08:24:01 am
Hi there,

I'm totaly new using a CC3D on a Heli. I've follow this guide so far:

https://frickelnundmehr.wordpress.com/startseite/trex-clone-und-cc3d/

My plan is, to use the CC3D at a Align 450 Pro V2 FBL

But now, I'm struggling at how to connection the cables between CC3D and my X6R Frsky reciver and how to set the correct channels at my Taranis X9d...

could anybody help me?

BTW: I'm using latest openTX Version 2.1.6
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: cato on December 05, 2015, 09:02:45 am
Hi Jamukah,

I have Frsky with X8R. It seems both rx are comparable. There are two options to connect your X6R. If you configured it to use the PWM outputs, simply connect the 6 channels with the main port. A cable for that should be part of your CC3D set.

The second option gives you 16 channels with your X6R, which is to configure it to S-Bus. In this case you would connect your S-Bus output to the Main Port of the CC3D. Again there should be a cable in your set. I used the main port cable with the thre single connectors, works perfect.

How to set up a Heli is not my domain, but there are a few people here who can help you with that part.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Jamukah on December 05, 2015, 09:33:53 am
Hi Jamukah,

I have Frsky with X8R. It seems both rx are comparable. There are two options to connect your X6R. If you configured it to use the PWM outputs, simply connect the 6 channels with the main port. A cable for that should be part of your CC3D set.

The second option gives you 16 channels with your X6R, which is to configure it to S-Bus. In this case you would connect your S-Bus output to the Main Port of the CC3D. Again there should be a cable in your set. I used the main port cable with the thre single connectors, works perfect.

How to set up a Heli is not my domain, but there are a few people here who can help you with that part.
Hi, Thanks a lot. I alread knew about the diffrent connection ways of the Frsky Recivers.
I ask for the correct Heli Model settings at the Transmitter.  BTW: I already  have connect the CC3D via S-BUS . But thanks again
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: cato on December 05, 2015, 09:56:24 am
Great :)

then maybe take a look here: https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=284.msg2589;topicseen#msg2589
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: el_alf on December 05, 2015, 04:01:26 pm
Is your trex with    or without flybar? I am trying with a flybarless and it is a success, but without flybar ... disaster! Yesterday it exploded all the blades eway!
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Jamukah on December 05, 2015, 04:35:45 pm
Is your trex with    or without flybar? I am trying with a flybarless and it is a success, but without flybar ... disaster! Yesterday it exploded all the blades eway!

It's without Paddels, so it is a Flybar Less Head.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: el_alf on December 09, 2015, 05:17:11 pm
I'm trying a t-rex without flybar and it fly well! If you need concact me for the .uov
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Lahiru on December 20, 2015, 05:11:26 pm
Anyone have used cc3d on 450 flybarless heli ?
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: el_alf on December 25, 2015, 09:32:56 am
Anyone have used cc3d on 450 flybarless heli ?

YESSS !  ;)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzs9uP2vcuA]
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: SamSam on December 30, 2015, 04:06:09 am
Yes this is very good controller, it took a while to figure out all the settings, as I was done open pilot site went down, so I am exited that this forum is up and running.. I have put together a video how to setup Heli with CC3d. Mine is a trex 450 compatible. here is the link..https://youtu.be/ew1WdpScSn0
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: SamSam on December 30, 2015, 04:10:34 am
https://youtu.be/XBHkVknoTO8
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: suzali on January 16, 2016, 05:44:45 pm
Anyone have used cc3d on 450 flybarless heli ?

YESSS !  ;)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzs9uP2vcuA]

I saw your video, great !!!
Can you please post or send UAV-file.
Thank you.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: SamSam on January 17, 2016, 01:00:07 am
yep.. here you go..

trex450 compatible, arm - roll right, Throttle  and collective on same stick, works on Open Pilot Ver 15.02.02 ONLY
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: A Monell on January 17, 2016, 04:53:26 am
Sam Sam , I'm wondering why setups for Open Pilot are being posted here, are you actively trying to get this working on LibrePilot as the members of this forum will most likely want to have assistance with the more recent releases.
 Nevertheless I am sure a lot of your instructions will be applicable. I am still trying to remember how to get a clean and simple heli programed into my Royal Evo/Pro as it been years since I had to change anything but a model name and some minor tweaks!
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: SamSam on January 18, 2016, 03:22:09 am
Monell,   Setup procedure is exactly same for Open pilot and Libre pilot. I am sharing my long hours put in, to figure out this controller, with other fellow members so they can benefit from it. It is up to the individual to use it or not use it. UAV files are not cross compatible with different versions, once you know how to setup your controller, you can tweak any UAV file for your version very quickly. I, myself use Libre pilot and Open pilot in my Helis.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Kettentiger on January 25, 2016, 10:25:54 pm
Hi SamSam,

for what kind of CC3D the uav-File is it?

The normal one or the revolution?
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: SamSam on January 27, 2016, 05:45:52 am
hello Kettentiger.. the uav file is for normal CC3d...I have ordered revo board... i will try this out and let you know if the file works on revo
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Griphin on February 13, 2016, 01:02:18 pm
Gday guys.  I'm trying to set up a HK250 FBL heli with a CC3D Atom and having a few probs.  I've set up the Inputs and Outputs.  All responds but my Collective in the Inputs.  Everything responds on my outputs test inc. motor.  Im stumped but knowing me its something basic I'm missing.

Hardware
HK250 FBL
CC3D Atom
25A ESC
Spectrum DX7 TX
Orange RX 6ch

Thanks for any hints.  Should I give up and just upload someone else's successful .uav file and modify it as required?  This is my first modern programable FC and I've spent hours reading and learning how to set it up myself.  Well tried to. 
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Mateusz on February 13, 2016, 01:54:41 pm
Not sure if you saw what Laurent wrote https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Helicopter
Maybe it would be beneficial if more people that fly Heli could contribute to Wiki.

The thing is that not every aircraft might have ESC connected to CC3D the same order, same ESC range, etc... I would not relay on specific UAV to work from one model to model. Unless it's the same model/hardware and connections are fixed.

Remember to do full erase before setting up your own stuff.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: daveapplemotors on February 13, 2016, 02:00:00 pm
To get the collective to work do a "Jerry save" Jerry Connus found this one!

On the page with swash leveling do a save with "3 servos 140 degrees" and save again immediately with "3 servos 120 degrees" flight battery and TX on.

Collective will probably work after that.

Good luck,
Dave
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Griphin on February 13, 2016, 02:10:04 pm
Tried the Jerry save and it didn't work.   :'(

I don't mind changing the hardware and output settings
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: daveapplemotors on February 13, 2016, 02:16:52 pm
Try one of my UAVs. They work HK250s.

Mine are set up for satellite but it is easy to change to RX from there. If you use mine change the "Actuator Settings" downward before you try them so they don't hurt your servos.

And I believe the "Jerry save" works if you have not tried the regular save first like right after swash leveling routine.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: gdenton61 on February 13, 2016, 05:43:36 pm
Hey Griphin,
Have you tried connecting a servo directly to Channel 6 of your receiver and exercise the Throttle stick just to make sure your transmitter is set up correctly?
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Griphin on February 13, 2016, 11:41:39 pm
Yes connected a servo to RX ch and it works.  So does the throttle.  I've recalibrated the ESC to the throttle range too.  Damned if I  know whats going on.  I might try Mr Apples file.  I could always go back to if that doesn't work which is very convenient, thank you. 
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: SamSam on February 14, 2016, 01:36:15 am
Hey Griphin,

I looked at your UAV file, all your connections are correct. I found some config errors and I fixed them, believe me I was able to hover few inches above ground in my basement with this file, here is the fixed file, upload it and let me know how it works. you will have to do a transmitter calibration, and might have to revers some controls depending on your setup. I noticed you had a lot of positive pitch,  if that's a problem remove servo arms and center them nice and then level your swash in the output page. if you want I can send some screen shots.. let me know
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: SamSam on February 14, 2016, 01:52:02 am
wiring diagram
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Griphin on February 14, 2016, 09:03:12 am
Uploaded the new file to the heli and trying it now.  I'm seeing loads of pitch too.  Way way too much.  The tail and Roll 2 out puts are off for me.  I'll play with it and get back too you.

BTW There are quite a few of us following your vids and hoping this works over at RC Groups  ;D
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1809971&page=64
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Griphin on February 14, 2016, 01:31:01 pm
Hey Griphin,

I looked at your UAV file, all your connections are correct. I found some config errors and I fixed them, believe me I was able to hover few inches above ground in my basement with this file, here is the fixed file, upload it and let me know how it works. you will have to do a transmitter calibration, and might have to revers some controls depending on your setup. I noticed you had a lot of positive pitch,  if that's a problem remove servo arms and center them nice and then level your swash in the output page. if you want I can send some screen shots.. let me know
Holy crap.  You've done it!  I bow to your brilliance.  I now have a working heli to test.  Yes I have way too much pitch and I'll try to fix that tomorrow night.  I remember you did it in your vids.  I'll start and new thread detailing my hardware and upload the .uav file.

Was it just screwed up PID servo setting or something else? 
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: SamSam on February 16, 2016, 04:38:54 am
hey....Griphin... thanks and no problem at all.. glad to help.. you made me laugh.. I was flying my heli with your UAV and I made few more changes.. and my friend did a small video with a phone I will post the new UAV in your new thread. here are the initial changes I made..you still have to do more fine tuning though.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: Griphin on February 16, 2016, 05:40:12 am
Yeah I kinda type the way I think without filtering and some people find that entertaining.  I've made a few changes to settings too. 
Should move your screen shots to my new thread to centralise what's relevant and get out of the owners thread with my bunk.  I'll do that tonight and answer questions.  Also list my hardware.     ;)
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 09, 2018, 02:57:48 pm
i know its old topic but maybe someone can help me

what input goes on collective channel? throttle, rudder, some special mix from tx?
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: TheOtherCliff on May 09, 2018, 04:40:35 pm
One of our heli guys could help you more, but the best way IMO to set up is to set collective as thrust/throttle in FC and use a governor ESC to hold the RPM steady on a separate channel that the FC does not stabilize or control.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: karla on May 10, 2018, 02:49:11 am
Hello zokizo33,
The classical way is to set up a collective curve in your transmitter on a separate channel. That curve follows the throttle stick from min to max. Start just with a linear curve from min to max while you are setting up the heli. Later on when flying you change the curve so you get the desired collective pitch angles as the throttle changes.
The channel you set up in your tx is what you use as input in the screen you posted.
If this is your first heli setup then I think its a good start and will give you more understanding of how it works and can be changed.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 10, 2018, 01:53:54 pm
almost all i understand but what i dont understand is: where i need to set curve for throttle and pitch for different flight modes acro or normal
on my tx or somewhere in librepilot (i used before one year ago cc3d board for my quads, but now first time for heli)
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: TheOtherCliff on May 10, 2018, 06:24:43 pm
There is a throttle curve in the Vehicle page, but generally LP not currently coded to do the V throttle curve from a safety standpoint.

I don't have a heli setup with LP, but if I did I would either use no curves (basically close to throttle=collective, so no 3D or inverted hover) or I would use a "governor mode" ESC on an unstabilized (passthrough?) channel to maintain the main rotor RPM while the throttle stick controlled only the collective.

There are guys here that are playing around with heli setups and I certainly defer to their judgement.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo on May 10, 2018, 09:44:44 pm
Thanks  ;}) i try all possible mix on my taranis but cant get 3d or V curve to work with cc3d, does selflevel work in normal mode?

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Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: TheOtherCliff on May 11, 2018, 12:42:17 am
Yes.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: karla on May 11, 2018, 04:33:44 am
almost all i understand but what i dont understand is: where i need to set curve for throttle and pitch for different flight modes acro or normal on my tx or somewhere in librepilot

There are several ways to do this, including what TheOtherCliff suggested, but this is the way I know from experience will work. Its also the way most descriptions in this forum will assume you have.

Set the throttle and collective curves in your transmitter.
Does your tx have a standard template for Heli?, you can use that and modify it. Your tx may also have a manual, it most likely will describe how throttle and collective curves are set up.
For a multitude of helis, 3 flight modes are set up in the tx: Normal, Sport and 3D flight. They will have different throttle and collective curves. Start just setting up a Normal flight mode with its Throttle and Collective curves and copy it to the other two modes, you can modify them later as last step before first flight.

Make sure in the GCS - Configuration - Helicopter - Basic Settings - CCPM Options, that the Collective Pass through is selected and the Link Cyclic/Collective option is deselected. This way the FC will not alter the input from the tx, but just pass it on to the servos.

You can have a look here as well
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=3269.msg22858#msg22858

Hope it helps
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: TheOtherCliff on May 11, 2018, 05:21:54 am
Careful with V throttle curve.  You must have a normal throttle curve to arm and start up, or have arming on a switch and soft ESC startup.

Good luck.  :)
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 11, 2018, 11:53:35 am
thanks guys on help i use taranis tx and s-bus (one wire connection) between cc3d and my rx
there is no wizard for setup helicopter all you have to make manual,
latter i will try few more suggestion and see does it work ( 3D flight mode )

thank on your help
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 12, 2018, 04:31:02 pm
one more question i noticed that my collective servos does not travel full range +-12 degrees 
looks like some curve is enabled, but i i have just one -100 +100

i made collective setup and all standard setup but my servos move just a little up and down
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: TheOtherCliff on May 13, 2018, 05:40:11 am
You probably have collective set as your stabilized vertical motion channel.  Stabilized flight isn't 3D where you need full pitch for maneuvers.  You just need enough to fly around with the limitations of your settings, like +-3m/s vertical speed.

It may be that if you had a large vertical speed range configured, and you had the collective stick to full max and it was falling very fast that it would wind up over time to use full collective, but that is not normal flight.  The question is whether it flies.  I would also ask some of the heli guys what their collective acts like (I'm not a heli guy).
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: karla on May 13, 2018, 12:07:05 pm
I noticed that my collective servos does not travel full range +-12 degrees 
looks like some curve is enabled, but i i have just one -100 +100
i made collective setup and all standard setup but my servos move just a little up and down

. Check that your tx really do output a -100 +100 range signal (linear curve),
. Check that you really did the remote control tx cal. in GCS w that curve,
. Check GCS - Configuration - Heli - Basic settings
  - Collective Pass through checked?
  - Link Cyclic... not checked?
  - The 3 CCPM slide mixers, move them to something like over 50%, maybe 70.
. Check GCS Output screen, move min and max points to make travel range wider.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo on May 13, 2018, 03:10:40 pm
Yes iwill check, in selflevel mode there is limit of angle maybe it is that, i did not play with libre more than one year and i forgot details of tuning :)

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Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: karla on May 14, 2018, 02:05:01 am
oh and another thing, set the stabilization to all manual when setting the pitch angels.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo on May 19, 2018, 10:36:11 am
After hours and hours of researching and trying i found solution in opentx (taranis) its no need to use any mixes only connect 3rd rear servo to throttle ch, thanks alot on tips guys

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Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 20, 2018, 04:00:46 pm
guys one more question :D
on collective i have 3 analog servos
on tail i have digital does this be a problem?

Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: TheOtherCliff on May 20, 2018, 06:14:06 pm
On output page you must be using different "banks" because you set the whole bank of outputs to a single ESC protocol.

I recall the banks are set so that bank 1 is outputs 1,2,3 and bank 2 is output 4.  If that is the case, bank one is normal servos and bank 2 is digital rate.  In that case, output 4 must be connected to the digital servo.  Move your servo plugs around to make it match banks as needed and adjust for the moving in the vehicle tab.

Of course modify this depending on what outputs are contained in what banks.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 21, 2018, 08:39:40 am
i got it
thanks alot

btw  when i start spinning motor tail servo start jerking (fast go left right) i isolated FC from vibration
is it possible because tail servo is digital but i put 50hz pwm output for him
or maybe to high PIDs?
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: TheOtherCliff on May 21, 2018, 08:54:56 am
50hz PWM will work, but if tail servo is digital and faster than that, you may want to run it faster.

I would start by guessing whether jerking is random or is a repeating oscillation.  If it is a repeating oscillation, the yaw PID may be too high.

Be aware that running faster than 50hz PWM on yaw allows you to run higher PID on yaw.
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 21, 2018, 09:16:52 am
it is repeating oscillation, i left default pid for yaw, if i remember well P is 600 I 1000 and D is 50
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 25, 2018, 08:36:13 pm
guys it is there options for put two flight modes acro and normal flight? and  change curve with switch on my tx
i check LP configurator and there is just two curve setting one is for throttle other is for colective
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: karla on May 26, 2018, 03:08:36 am
The way I do three flight modes with heli is having a three position switch on the TX with three separate curves (in the tx). Then I set three corresponding modes in LP FC, for example to Attitude, Rate, Acro+. That works fine.

However, I am not sure from your previous post, if you did set up the collective curves in your TX or not:
After hours and hours of researching and trying i found solution in opentx (taranis) its no need to use any mixes only connect 3rd rear servo to throttle ch, thanks alot on tips guys
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 26, 2018, 08:43:43 am
thanks on reply
no i did not frsky taranis its little complicated i link pitch servo with throttle to have collective so if i put curve on my throttle for 3d flight my pitch servo also act like throttle
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: karla on May 27, 2018, 02:19:29 am
I don't use Taranis myself but maybe this video tutorial series can help you.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYsWjANuAm4rtLZuLU2eSTc3svqWx-pa1
K
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo on May 27, 2018, 07:50:32 pm
Thanks karla
Today i try hower but my heli start wobble whole heli little and tail alot what can cause that? to high PID? , i isolate fc from vibration, does some body can sugest PID to start with i have trex 450 class

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Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: TheOtherCliff on May 27, 2018, 10:49:50 pm
Yes, it sounds like PIDs are too high.  :(

For next time, it helps sometimes if you make a video.  :)
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: karla on May 28, 2018, 01:07:51 am
You can try these PIDs used for an align trex450 using LibrePilot 16.09
The numbers can be higher but its responsive and nice.

(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=370.0;attach=7540;image)
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: zokizo33 on May 28, 2018, 11:07:06 am
thanks guys i will try  :) :)
Title: Re: CC3D on Align 450 FBL and Taranis
Post by: FlyNFool on June 30, 2018, 10:25:41 pm
I've gone through setting up a Heli with a Taranis. Can answer specifics if anyone needs.