LibrePilot Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: darkdave on May 14, 2016, 09:48:57 am
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I finally got Return to Home Working!
I used the following Fusion setting: Complimentary + Mag + GPS
Is the above setting correct for my setup? My setup is an external GPS and Mag.
Does the "Mag" in the above setting mean external or internal(complimentary mag) mag?
Should I have chosen INSGPS instead? Why or why not?
I have 3 flight modes.
System Channel
Mode 1 = 0 = Stabalize 2
Mode 2 = 1 = Stabalize 3
Mode 3 = 2 = Return to Home
Is the above correct? I told the system settings to use channel 2 as a fail safe mode.
When I turned off my controller to test the fail safe it fell straight down and whack!
Should I have told the system that Channel 3 is the fail safe channel?
Also do I need to set the Manual Setting-> Fail Safe -> Throttle = above zero?
At the moment it is set to -1.
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I don't understand the "failsafe channel"
There is a flight mode position while the vehicle is in failsafe mode.
Complemetary+Mag+Gps is fine as well, if not, you cannot arm because bad config at some point.
Go to Attitude > Magnetometer and set the Mag usage you want, should be "AuxOnly" if you have a AuxMag setup.
When a "auto mode" is engaged the Throttle has no effect.
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Check attached photos. I want my mode 3 to be failsafe.
Should I set the setting to 2 or 3?
Im asking because there is a setting 0.
Im wondering if there is a -1 off set
So maybe mode 1 = 0? or 1?
Also you didnt answer my question about the meaning of MAG in complimentary + MAG + GPS
+MAG means external mag?
if so does that mean complimentary = acccelerometers, gyros, barometers and internal mag compass?
And what is this INS thing? Why not just call it GPS? whats the difference between GPS and INS?
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Also you didnt answer my question about the meaning of MAG in complimentary + MAG + GPS
Looks like you have so many questions/threads you miss some answers:
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=688.msg11695#msg11695
And what is this INS thing?
INS13 is related to the fusion algorithm used.
Why not just call it GPS?
No, GPS is a sensor
whats the difference between GPS and INS?
https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/INS13+-+GPS+Navigation
For flight mode number, you already do the "mapping" in your previous post.
+MAG means external mag?
Complementary+Mag do not refers to the mag location.
If you use Mag, whatever the fusion algorithm used:
Go to Attitude > Magnetometer and set the Mag usage you want, should be "AuxOnly" if you have a AuxMag setup.
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Look in the 3 screen shots I posted here:
1. Can you please explain what each of these settings do? Because some of them seem redundant. Why is there a listing for +MAG when there is already an internal Mag compass in the flight board?
Also if INS13 is an algorithm involving the use of acceleromters and gyros, isnt that the same as "Complimentary (Basic)"?
Why is it listed again as: INS13(indoor)? What's the difference between INS13(indoor) and Complimentary(Basic)?
And then why is it listed yet again as: INS13(GPS)?
As you can see the last one seems not to make any sense at all if what you say is true that INS13 is not GPS.
What does INS stand for? I cant find the answer on a search engine.
2. I went to where you told me to go: Configuration->Attitude: but no setting to set it to Aux Only.
3. Or were you talking about system settings->AuxMag? If so what should I do here?
So INS is fusion algorithm and not a hardware? Yes?
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Thanks for those links, really helpful.
What I don't get is this contradiction:
INS = Inertial Navigation System.
Librepilot documentation on their INS13: "This complementary filter however gets skewed by centripetal forces (aka when flying in circles for a longer time) and it can not calculate speed and position."
Ref: https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=1607.0
CAN NOT calculate speed and POSITION.
How is this a navigation system if it CANNOT calculate POSITION?
Especially in this mode: "INS13INDOOR"
Normally I would just experiment but my drone is smashed and have to wait for money to buy a new one.
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CAN NOT calculate speed and POSITION.
How is this a navigation system if it CANNOT calculate POSITION?
We are talking about the Complementary in general, this apply to:
Complementary,
Complementary + Mag,
Complementary + Mag + GPS.
So the complementary cannot compute an accurate speed and position if the complementary filter however gets skewed by centripetal forces.
This can occurs when you fly in circles for long time.
Especially in this mode: "INS13INDOOR"
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=688.msg4997#msg4997
INS13Indoor and INS13GPS are the same, they use 13 sensor inputs to compute the position and attitude in 3D space.
The only difference: For INS13Indoor, the 3 GPS position values are fake and do not come from GPS:
1 - Position in space - N (North) axis
2 - Position in space - E (East) axis
3 - Position in space - D (Down) axis
Those are NED values, relative to defined Home, in meters
So INS13Indoor is a INS13/EKF13 that can be used indoor, without GPS.
2. I went to where you told me to go: Configuration->Attitude: but no setting to set it to Aux Only.
I was assuming you already compiled the Next branch for Auxmag use.
Like others members and me already told you:
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=1444.msg10999#msg10999
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=1512.msg11066#msg11066
Currently the 15.09 supports external Mag only if you use the OP GPSv9.
More info about AuxMag usage and next is here: https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=1110.0
Sorry bout the crash but you may simply assume you cannot have a safe setup using onboard Mag and a Qav250, that impossible because component with strong currents are too close and disturb the onboard Mag.
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Many thanks for your explanation above: very helpful!
Regarding my problems: Actually the problem is too many people here are experts that use acronyms without explaining what they are like as if it's part of laymen's English now.
For example: NEXT. What the hell is "Next"? Is this a version of the Librepilot GCS?
Is it a GPS version? What is it?
Another Acronym I dont get is I2C. Why not just call it AuxMAG? What does it mean I2C? What does the I and the C stand for?
Finally: What's the difference between Complimentary(Basic) and INS13Indoor?
Thanks in advance, Dave the Newbie.
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Actually the problem is too many people here are experts that use acronyms without explaining what they are like as if it's part of laymen's English now.
For example: NEXT. What the hell is "Next"? Is this a version of the Librepilot GCS?
Is it a GPS version? What is it?
In the attachment you have screen shot of searching forum with "next", "what is next" terms. Second hit in both cases.
It is a git branch of that name, which holds development code. Please don't ask that again in another thread.
Another Acronym I dont get is I2C. Why not just call it AuxMAG? What does it mean I2C? What does the I and the C stand for?
You asked the same thing in another thread.
What I2C is, please refer to the first hit http://lmgtfy.com/?q=I2C it will link you to good overview what I2C really is, but it is communication protocol between two devices.
Why it is not called AuxMag is simply because AuxMag is the device itself, and the same device can communicate with flight controller in different languages (protocols).
Finally: What's the difference between Complimentary(Basic) and INS13Indoor?
Please have a look at Wiki https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/INS13+-+GPS+Navigation
By applying simple logic, INS31Indoor is the INS31 variant that you can use indoors. So it has all what INS31 has, except for sensors that cannot be used indoors. What those sensors can be ? Hint "clear sky is needed".
Complementary is a simple sensor fusion algorithm designed for low end micro-controllers back in AVR 8bit era. They couldn't handle full statistical model such as EKF.
There are whole lengthy books about it and people study. For the purpose of this post I think good simplification would be to think of EKF as properly sound mathematical model, while Complementary you could consider like approximation (hack). Pros and cons are describe in the above Wiki link I provided.
People put a lot of effort in making this Wiki as complete as possible. Please if you don't know something search it for the terms you are confused. It is likely that your question has already been answered there.
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Link you gave me is broken. The one about I2C.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=I2C
With a name like "Next" it is hard to determine doing a search in the forum to distinguish threads that are using the words as a word and threads that are using the word as a name.
I still don't get what "Next" is. Is it a version of the librepilot GCS?
Can some one provide the download link for "NEXT"?
Also what is a "git" branch?
I know what INS13 is now but I dont understand how this is different from "Basic Complimentary". And your explanation is focusing on the use of acronyms again instead of laymen words. Ok wait, when you say EKF you mean INS13 right?
I'm going to make a guess:
INS13 is using the complimentary sensors with inertial software to get "fake" GPS positioning and orientation.
Basic Complimentary is just using the basic sensors for orientation stability but without the inertial software so it has no positioning nor orientation data on the map. It's basicly flying blind but staying level.
Correct?
In what situation would one choose to use "Basic complimentary" instead of "INS13"?
Lastly I think this forum and the wiki needs to be linked to a librepilot Glossary Page so that common acronyms can be explained or linked to a relevant page in one page.
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No results for "What is Next"
Is it that black cube that Steve Jobs made after he was fired from Apple?
UPDATE:
Ok I did do some more searching, looks like Next is some source code you want us to copy paste into the hardware?
https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Windows+Building+and+Packaging#WindowsBuildingandPackaging-Introduction
Why not just include "NEXT" in the download when people hit "UPDATE" during the vehicle setup wizard? And then flash it into the board. Then it's all done behind the scenes instead of all this code hacking. Not everyone who wants to play with drones are programmers.
Just a thought.
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You should consider the brain is on your side, not the forum search.
Ask the forum with something like that: "Whats the color of the blue car"
What happens ?
Maybe search for "next branch" as keywords.
When i do a search with 'next" word, all answers in first page refers to this thread:
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=1110.0
The first wiki link in this thread is https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Developer+Manual
All instructions for next build are here ^^
The next branch refers to the work in progress, this cannot be included with a "update" button, sorry.
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I dont want to use my internal compass anymore because im convinced its being hit by magnetic fields nearby in the drone power distribution systems. I want to only use my external Mag.
If I want to use the mag compass in my GPS (Neo 6m)
Ive got the GPS in mainport and compass from the GPS casing into Flexiport.
In hardware settings Ive set main port = GPS and Flexiport = I2C
I have to set my fusion to Complimentary + GPS + Mag
Stability configuration to the same above.
Is the above correct?
What else do I need to do?
What do I set my System Settings to? I notice there is an Aux Mag setting... do I need to set the parameters in there to anything specific?
I did search for the forum for "external compass" and "external mag" but couldnt find any useful info except that it looks like I also have to upgrade my flash software to "NEXT".
UPDATE: Ok did find the link you supplied informative reading it now but still need to know:
Do I REALLY need "NEXT" to use an external Mag? - Please answer this part, thanks.
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Do I REALLY need "NEXT" to use an external Mag?
Definitively
15.09 support only external mag from the OP GPSv9.
Here is all the process for AuxMag setup and calibration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4V_ZGG0Hk0
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I have an "Operation Timed Out" error in the space where you gave your instructions for installing an external mag.
Is there another way you can post that information here?
Im in China so perhaps its a great firewall of china issue.
I got return to home function working with the external mag plugged into the flexi port set to I2C. But according to you it (the external mag) probably wasnt working(since Im not using "NEXT"). So how did the drone return to home? The fusion setting was complimentary + mag + GPS.
Does that mean the drone was still using the internal mag (less reliable due to interference) + GPS data + complimentary gyro/accel fused with the INS13 software?
Just trying to understand where my drone is at now.
Lastly could you provide me an ebay link to this OP GPSv9 ? I cant seem to find it on ebay and I want to buy it so I can get it to work as an external mag and GPS without the need to hack my board to upgrade it to "NEXT". I want to avoid that kind of hacking as Im not confident with it.
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The OP GPS v9 was only sell by OpenPilot, the only way to find one is from another user that want to sell one.
For little time the quad can work without accurate Mag using his Gyros for heading. Generally this do not work for a long time and finally do a flyaway.
How to build next attached to this message, from Wiki page.
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I found it!!
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.112.KV3Hum&id=527336540236&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail
This is it right? If I buy this then I dont need "NEXT" and I just have to watch that youtube video you sent me and have a french girl translate it for me. Right?
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Ok I just bought the OP GPSv9 in China!
Looks like it has a single cable for both GPS and External MAg! So I plug it into the Flexi port right? Not the main port?
And the Install wizard will auto detect and do the rest once Ive selected it from the GPS list?
David
UPDATE:
OMG: http://www.moz8.com/thread-64103-1-1.html
China guide to Librepilot!!
lol
There is a focus here on getting the GPS to work with Nanno (mini) version of Open Pilot, I just hope it still work with standard Revolution bards.
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Just follow the chinese guide, no firewall issues :)
You just must know the GPSv9 you buy is not original.
The best guide is Wizard, he configure all ports for you.
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Ill get a student to help me translate the site, I think this site is very well illustrated dispite the low resolution.
Take notes admin people... this is how you make a FAQ. Notice the Chinese have taken screenshots of the key areas of the GCS and circled all the areas that need editing such as the System Tab?
Thats probably what you guys should also do.
Thanks for all the help FSOH.
David
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Ill get a student to help me translate the site, I think this site is very well illustrated dispite the low resolution.
Take notes admin people... this is how you make a FAQ. Notice the Chinese have taken screenshots of the key areas of the GCS and circled all the areas that need editing such as the System Tab?
No need the steps illustrated like that, all is done using the setup wizard: full resolution.
Thanks for the tip, i already highlight areas like that in all the wiki (the one you cannot access).
Little example:
https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Advanced+features
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1607.0;attach=3067)
https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/Advanced+tuning
(https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1607.0;attach=3065)
Same for the video i did, sorry for the french but you must notice the English comments.
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If anyone want to buy the OpenPilot GPS let me know, ill be starting an ebay page soon for all of you westerners outside of China who want a clone version of it.
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As the upcoming release will add support for DJI GPS, i don't really recommend anyone buying those OP-GPS clones.
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Whats so great about DJI GPS in comparison to other GPS we normally use?
ie NEO Blox 8M with built in compass (MAG)
Also when will the upcoming release be released?
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If anyone want to buy the OpenPilot GPS let me know, ill be starting an ebay page soon for all of you westerners outside of China who want a clone version of it.
No one actually tested those clones, how is the signal to noise under different conditions. Some cheap hardware can have noisy circuit thanks to cheap or improperly chosen capacitors or cheap antenna. Ublox has some guide lines on integrating their modules in designs. Each unit is usually calibrated to antenna. It's not as simple as putting similar components together and making it output something that looks like GPS coordinates.
Whats so great about DJI GPS in comparison to other GPS we normally use? ie NEO Blox 8M with built in compass (MAG)
Only OP GPSv9 is supported in current released version of Librepilot, as that is known to work.
I don't know what you are using "normally" but you must be talking about development code. As name suggest this code is not released. It's something flight-test team is trying.
The cheap GPS units from ebay with M8N are a bit gamble, they probably will be supported as PixHawk project uses them. I am lucky with mine, however people reported problems with noisy circuit or Mag dropping connection due to weak pull-ups (bad quality hardware). This is what can happen with every clone.
I agree with Alessio that DJI GPS is the way to go, if you don't want to risk money and get something that actually is known to work.
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If anyone want to buy the OpenPilot GPS let me know, ill be starting an ebay page soon for all of you westerners outside of China who want a clone version of it.
No one actually tested those clones, how is the signal to noise under different conditions. Some cheap hardware can have noisy circuit thanks to cheap or improperly chosen capacitors or cheap antenna. Ublox has some guide lines on integrating their modules in designs. Each unit is usually calibrated to antenna. It's not as simple as putting similar components together and making it output something that looks like GPS coordinates.
Whats so great about DJI GPS in comparison to other GPS we normally use? ie NEO Blox 8M with built in compass (MAG)
Only OP GPSv9 is supported in current released version of Librepilot, as that is known to work.
I don't know what you are using "normally" but you must be talking about development code. As name suggest this code is not released. It's something flight-test team is trying.
The cheap GPS units from ebay with M8N are a bit gamble, they probably will be supported as PixHawk project uses them. I am lucky with mine, however people reported problems with noisy circuit or Mag dropping connection due to weak pull-ups (bad quality hardware). This is what can happen with every clone.
I agree with Alessio that DJI GPS is the way to go, if you don't want to risk money and get something that actually is known to work.
yes, you are right, remember i just do these for fun :) , not for business.
the circuit is not test under VNA, maybe i will got a VNA next step:)
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yes, you are right, remember i just do these for fun :) , not for business.
the circuit is not test under VNA, maybe i will got a VNA next step:)
I agree it would be good to make some measurements. But also compare this GPS to other units on the market would be interesting.
For example this post
http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/u-blox-m8n-ground-planes-antennas-and-positional-accuracy?page=6
You can easily see that accuracy is greatly affected by many factors.
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By normal GPS I mean UBLOX Neo 8M and 6M. Why is the choice to replace OpGPS DJI? What's wrong with NEO?
Also please help me with this outstanding question in my mind if you can:
In what situation would one choose Basic Complimentary instead of INS13(or INS31 I forgot which one)?
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By normal GPS I mean UBLOX Neo 8M and 6M. Why is the choice to replace OpGPS DJI? What's wrong with NEO?
All those units use Neo M8,M7 or M6 modules. Differences are explained above. There is no such thing as OpGPS DJI.
Also please help me with this outstanding question in my mind if you can:
In what situation would one choose Basic Complimentary instead of INS13(or INS31 I forgot which one)?
You asked that twice, got twice the answer which is a link to Wiki explaining exactly what each setting is, and what are advantages and disadvantages.
You ask the same question for the third time, really ? Why don't you just click that Wiki link and read it ?
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You mis understand what my question is.
Why is the choice replacement to OPGPS = DJI GPS? Why not create support instead for both the MAG and the GPS modules in NEO brand GPS units instead? Since that is the brand that most of us here are familiar with as they are often shipped with open pilot revolution boards in a package?
The wiki link provided ambiguously describes a list of fusion functions but does not say in what scenario they should be used it for clarification. For example: In what situation would a pilot choose the BASIC complimentary ? Why would anyone choose that? Why not just choose INS13(Indoor) instead? Why would anyone willingly choose BASIC complimentary and delibrately handicap themselves so they have no position data on the map? Why not just choose INS13(indoor) every time they dont have a GPS or are flying indoor? Why not just list INS13(GPS outdoor) for use of GPS when outdoors and INS13(Indoor) for use indoor or outdoor without a GPS as a function and not bother listing those other functions that no one will ever use in any situation that I can think of? Thats my question.
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Thats my question.
So many questions :)
INS/EKF13 assumes all sensors are well calibrated.
Fun fly / acro should only need Complementary.
Learn, test, learn, test, crash (sometimes)
That the best way to answers all questions.
The ublox brand has nothing related to Mag, ublox only refers to gps receiver module. Visit Ublox website.
Again: compile the next branch, we already posted the link to do by yourself.
Browsing the wizard, you should have all hardware / GPS / Mag answers.
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Ublox comes with mag. Sometimes you have to solder the cable to the Mag component your self.
https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=1512.msg11757#msg11757
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Yes, i know... that a i2c mag.
Ublox refers only to the brand name of GPS module used, nothing related to Mag support.
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So back to my original questions:
1. Why is the support team choosing DJI GPS in particular to be the GPS+MAG combo of choice to replace OP GPS+MAG?
2. Can you send me an ebay link to this DJI GPS+MAG device? I cant seem to find any evidence that it even exists.
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Can you send me an ebay link to this DJI GPS+MAG device? I cant seem to find any evidence that it even exists.
http://www.banggood.com/Ublox-M8N-GPS-Compatible-with-DJI-NAZA-Lite-V1-V2-Flight-Controller-Phantom-1-2-Vision-p-991718.html
You must be able to search the same or similar GPS from ebay. Just put "DJI GPS" keywords ?
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This is a Ublox GPS. You said this GPS is DJI?
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This is a Ublox GPS. You said this GPS is DJI?
Product name says DJI compatible GPS.
You must learn how to use Google to find more information, here how to find Ublox products
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ublox
Answering your question, DJI (another brand try Googling them) just uses Ublox modules in many if not all of their GPS units. All GPS units I have use Ublox module, its the most popular one.
I wrote earlier "All those units use Neo M8,M7 or M6 modules" as well as " Ublox has some guide lines on integrating their modules in designs."
Module is a small part not the whole device.
Ublox module is just a brand of a module and not a GPS unit. The Neo M8 is just a part of GPS. Go to Ublox website to check their products.
GPS unit is composed of: Ublox module, GPS antenna and some electronics around which talks to or powers Ublox module.
On the top of that some GPS units happen to include additionally Magnetometer. Although it is not necessary for GPS unit to have magnetometer at all.
Please read this post by Cliff explaining how things work https://forum.librepilot.org/index.php?topic=15.msg36#msg36
How this GPS units are called by Chinese is irrelevant, they call most of products wrong, shops like "good luck buy", "bang good" I mean really ? is that what they really mean ? Then another example "Revolution" never existed, but it makes marketing easier so people looking for CC3D can find Revolution. I don't even know where some of those names come from.
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Google is useless if I'm under the incorrect assumption (that you gave me from your ambigious language) that there is a brand of GPS called "DJI".
Now that you have clarified that the GPS is actually a UBLOX GPS it clears up a lot of misunderstanding.
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Good luck, I won't poison you with my "ambiguous" language anymore. You were warned at least three times not just by me, that you try to bypass safety feature, yet you attempted still to fly. Hope next time no one gets hurt because of your actions. For a very good reason firmware prevents from arming when you do something wrong ("wrong" here is saying it politely).
Sent from my Nexus 5X
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Hi guys.
I did 2 experiments today:
Failsafe channel = -1
Failsafe Channel Throttle % = 1%
Failsafe channel = 1
Failsafe Channel Throttle % = 1%
Channel 1 = Stabalize 1 (Attitude, Attitude, Axis Lock)
Here were the results:
Experiment 1: Drone went to 100% Throttle
Experiment 2: Drone went to 100% Throttle
Why is that?
2nd Question:
Whats the difference between:
1. SAVE (Red up arrow)
2. SEND (Green up arrow)
in Systems Settings?
I notice that when I press Save and then press SEND (For good measure) it doesn't always "save" into the drone and sometimes I have to double check by disconnecting and reconnecting the drone/controller to the USB in my PC and check that the changes stayed "changed". But usually it doesn't until I have done above procedure it 2 times.
David
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You set perfectly to make a nice rocket and return to ground after the battery is low.
+1value is 100% throttle
Look how the values react while moving the sticks in Data > ManualControlCommand
FailsafeFlightModeSwitchPosition refers to the flightmode switch position
With FailsafeFlightModeSwitchPosition = 0 this set the flightmode pos number 1
For test you just need to see the FM position in input tab while failsafe is on
Send: Send values to the board, but do not save
Save: Send values to the board, and save.
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Please look at the screenshot that you removed from my previous message when you moved it into this thread.
As you can see:
Value Unit
Throttle 1 %
Doesn't look like a setting for a rocket to me!
Also you haven't dealt with the issue:
That saving/sending system settings doesn't work the first time. I have to disconnect and then reconnect via usb to either the drone or my oplink and repeat the saving and sending to make it work.
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Sorry i do not understand how the Throttle values works :)
I didn't notice you put a screenshot, but indeed that's a nice screenshot.
Again, 1% mean full throttle, a perfect rocket.
Look how the values react while moving the sticks in Data > ManualControlCommand
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Well I got the idea to adjust the throttle settings on youtube. But on youtube the guy got different results. Is this another China Clone issue?
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So, what value do you set for Throttle failsafe finally ?
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Without GPS I have abandonned Failsafe alltogether (-1 setting for fail safe channel and 0% throttle)
When using GPS I set Failsafe channel to "3" for my 3rd flight mode setting of "return to base" and leave throttle setting to 0%.