LibrePilot Forum

Users => Vehicles - Helicopters => Topic started by: Woodchuck12 on March 15, 2016, 05:33:49 pm

Title: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on March 15, 2016, 05:33:49 pm
I am trying to get into helicopters right now, but I have been out of the loop for a while. I would like to set up a FBL T-rex 250 that I have for a while with a CC3D board but I was wondering where I should start?

I am fairly comfortable (read as "less than competent") with setting up quads on the GCS, but I have no clue where to start with helicopters.

Thank you so much for any help!
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 15, 2016, 06:26:09 pm
Welcome,

I have a couple of 250s flying with CC3D boards and Libre Pilot. One is a Trex250 with satellite

Try my sample.uav file. It is conservative enough to not damage the servos.  Read a few threads to get a feel for it.

Don't use the Libre Pilot GUI for TX or vehicle setup. Also don't use "swash leveling" 

RX or satellite?
What TX?

Just ask. There are operators standing by. heh heh
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on March 15, 2016, 06:44:49 pm
I will definitely look into that when I get some time. I have to rebuild some things first 😁 

I am using an old dx7 probably with a receiver once I find one (organizational skills lacking).

Do you have any advice for mounting the cc3d? I'm thinking I may have to remove the section right above the back landing gear leg to make it fit on the bottom of the frame. The board is in a case and I may attach it with some double sided foam tape.

Thank you!
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 16, 2016, 11:18:06 am
DX7 will work fine. With 6 flight modes you can compare how it flies with 3 different settings banks. And check out "Rattitude","Acro+","V-bar", etc.

I did a real 'ghetto job' mounting my first CC3D board. First I got rid of the case. Then I made it fit inside the lower frame by cutting away some of the output pins. I ran a common +(pos) and a common -(ground/neg) to each servo. It worked but I am happier with a smaller board that fits with no modification.

Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on March 17, 2016, 12:27:37 am
Awesome thanks! I'll look into those! I've got everything mounted, just a bit of soldering and figuring out how to connect things and I'll try and get it going. Thanks for all your help!
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on March 18, 2016, 05:42:40 am
Okay, so I got the helicopter set up correctly I think, but I cannot get the transmitter calibration to even start to work. The wizard doesn't pick up stick movements and neither will manual. I feel like I am missing something obvious but I have no idea what.

I am attaching my .uav file in case that helps. Also for my setup in case that is useful: Trex 250, Microheli FBL head, Align ESC (stock), HS-5065mg on cyclic, DS920G on tail. The transmitter is one of the original Dx7's and the receiver is an Ar6100e.

Thank you so much!
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 18, 2016, 12:37:52 pm
Hey Woodchuck, what's your name? I am Dave Dutton.

BankUpdateFreq = Servo frequency: I use 50 universally. Your servos and esc might support higher rates but if anything gets hot lower the rate. I have ruined some equipment with rates too high.

As for your TX here are your values with lots of zeros and only 4 channels: .

<object id="0x72A1176C" name="ManualControlSettings">
            <field name="FailsafeChannel" values="-1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0"/>
            <field name="ChannelMin" values="0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0"/>
            <field name="ChannelNeutral" values="0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0"/>
            <field name="ChannelMax" values="0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0"/>
            <field name="ResponseTime" values="0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0"/>
            <field name="ChannelGroups" values="PWM,PWM,PWM,PWM,None,None,None,None,None,None"/>
            <field name="ChannelNumber" values="1,2,3,4,0,0,0,0,0,0"/>
            <field name="Deadband" values="2"/>
            <field name="DeadbandAssistedControl" values="8"/>
            <field name="FlightModeNumber" values="6"/>
            <field name="FailsafeFlightModeSwitchPosition" values="-1"/>
        </object>

A portion of "1001Blackie.uav" from October:

<object name="ManualControlSettings" id="0x28801F10">
            <field values="0.02" name="Deadband"/>
            <field values="0.08" name="DeadbandAssistedControl"/>
            <field values="-1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0" name="FailsafeChannel"/>
            <field values="1114,1115,1113,1111,916,1115,0,0,0" name="ChannelMin"/>
            <field values="1146,1516,1517,1528,1466,1116,0,0,0" name="ChannelNeutral"/>
            <field values="1916,1922,1918,1915,2016,1915,0,0,0" name="ChannelMax"/>
            <field values="0,0,0,0,0,0,0" name="ResponseTime"/>
            <field values="PWM,PWM,PWM,PWM,PWM,PWM,None,None,None" name="ChannelGroups"/>
            <field values="1,2,3,4,5,6,0,0,0" name="ChannelNumber"/>
            <field values="4" name="FlightModeNumber"/>
            <field values="-1" name="FailsafeFlightModeSwitchPosition"/>
        </object>

Cut and paste this part into your uav --but keep your six flight modes--mine had only 4 flight modes back in October. You will have some numbers with which the "Manual Calibration" can begin to work.
 
Attached the whole file from October,1 -- "1001Blackie.uav"

Hope it helps ;)
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on March 18, 2016, 07:45:36 pm
Hi I'm Charlie :)

I fixed the uav file and the servos are all moving fine when I use the test program on the GCS. When I use my transmitter however, everything gets really weird really fast.

I suspect this is due to the mixing I have done on my Tx for the ccpm swash setup so my plan was to try setting my Tx to one servo mode without mixing or to try it on normal plane mode rather than heli mode.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 18, 2016, 08:19:20 pm
Good plan. One servo. And make sure TX has defaults only when you finally get it to do manual calibration.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on March 19, 2016, 01:53:59 pm
Awesome thank you for all of the help! I've got the helicopter behaving mostly correctly. The one thing that I can't seem to iron out is that when the throttle stick is bottomed out, the cyclic servos jitter quickly. This goes away as soon as the collective/throttle is raised.

Also, really stupid question I think, but for flight modes, the switch on my Tx only has 3 positions, yet I have six flight modes?

I can't thank you enough for all of the help!
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 19, 2016, 03:22:06 pm
Jitters:
Make neutral value very close (+2) to minimum values on throttle and pitch

Six flight postitions:You must play with your mixes in your TX to get 6 flight modes. My DX7 switch setup: Mix=Aux2, Gyro=gear; mix1 Aux2>gear , Rate -79%, -5%, Offset 14% and then play with limits to Aux2 and or Gear if you need. My Gyro switch is a 3-position switch. My CC3D has gear set to channel 5. You have a monitor or something on your TX to see channel 5 movement and percentages, que no?

No such thing as a stupid question! None of this was easy. I found help on the old OP forum (kricke?) to get the mixing.
I don't know how a DX6 is configured but you mix a 3-position switch with a 2 position switch with enough offset and percentages then you can get 6 flight modes. The next step is to do Manual Calibration (with defaults in TX). You flip the two switches to all combinations there to give the computer ideas. You verify six flight modes work in Configuration / Input / Fight Mode Switch Settings. I have made adjustments to the Flightmode (min, neu, and max) in Configuration / Input / RC Input. Watch the slider on the left change postisions. And then decide which of 3 Settings Banks and type of flight mode: Rate, Rattitude, Acro+, etc. that you want to try. Remember to practice flight mode switches for emergencies. I keep the most conservative settings easiest to reach while flying. Bail out?;)
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on March 20, 2016, 06:44:33 pm
So I believe that I've got everything set up close to correctly, the only thing is that unless the arming settings are set to always arm, the helicopter will never arm. Also, when the throttle gets to a certain speed, at most I can get it down to a rather quick idle, but I cannot make the motor stop short of unplugging the battery. Otherwise, everything else seems to be working about right.

Thank you!
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on March 20, 2016, 09:39:58 pm
Cool Charlie,

Sounds like you are nearly ready to test some more:)

If you are saying that you can not use one of the more useful "throttle of and _______ " arming methods AND your motor does not return to zero rpms at zero throttle then set the throttle actuator lower. Try small amounts at a time until it works.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on March 21, 2016, 04:08:55 am
So, everything seems to be in working order! Thank you so much for all of your help!

What ended up being the problem, was that in the GCS, on the input tab under throttle: The minimum needed to be set beneath the neutral or it would not arm. This was also the cause for it not returning to a stop when the throttle was lowered. It was returning to the minimum, but as the minimum was also the neutral, it would only drop to an idle.  :P

The jitters in the servo were caused by the collective's neutral being above its minimum rather than equal, just as you said. :)

Tomorrow, if everything goes to plan, I will attempt a first flight and start (hopefully) working on tuning the PID's.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on April 10, 2016, 05:43:18 pm
So I decided to change the CC3D on my helicopter to an atom for ease of wiring and service, but now I cannot for the life of me get it set up. I tried to port the same .uav file to the atom as from the CC3D, however, the transmitter setup is defeating me every time.

The Tx is set to defaults (1 servo, haven't touched the curves, etc) except for I enabled throttle in its settings. I have tried starting with only defaults and every combination I can think of, but I cannot get the transmitter setup in the GCS to work. Whenever I try to do the manual setup, the collective bar defaults to only zeroes and doesn't read that the Tx has it. I am lost. I can get everything else to initialize and work, except for the throttle hold switch.

I am pretty sure it is not a hardware problem as I have tried switching out everything I can think of. I have also tried starting from others' .uav files, but nothing seems to work. Here is the .uav that I was using the last time the helicopter worked:
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on April 10, 2016, 11:08:57 pm
Do you have radio input?

Check Configuration / Flight Data-- the input light. Green is good. Red, no. For radio (PWM) input with your 6113 RX your UAV says Receiver Port. Check in Configuration / Hardware. Is that where it's plugged in? Yours should have no DSM, which is for satellite.

Also once you get connected and do Manual Calibration you will be successful. Your TX numbers for 6 channels are still in your UAV: 1118, 1924, etc. 

Just a guess...

Sometimes I get weirdness like one not binding unless I am connecting to USB. And then after that it binds to just the TX for the rest of my session.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on April 11, 2016, 04:19:27 am
No radio input seems to make it to the servos to move them. The servos do react when I move the CC3D though. In the GCS it shows everything on the Tx moving properly except for the collective slider. When I hit throttle hold, the throttle slider stops responding as it should, but the collective slider always defaults to zero in the manual Tx calibration.

My Tx is telling me that throttle hold is working properly, but the GCS seems to disagree. Nothing is set to DSM, everything is PWM. The Rx is plugged into the Receiver Port. Manual calibration works for everything but the collective bar.

The Tx is set up with defaults and I have tried multiple receivers. I have tried binding while plugged in and binding while not. I am lost for where to look for other problems.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on April 11, 2016, 05:43:19 am
I have two strategies when things don't move.
#1 go back to a UAV that moved
#2 try Swash Leveling (make sure to do a Jerry save if that works)

I am in the same boast with you right now. Blackie is paralyzed too. I flew him a few packs today and when I got home to play with the GPS it acts just like yours. I am going to bed and will try tomorrow.  My head hurts.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on April 11, 2016, 12:41:28 pm
I am mystified again. I thought I might be pushing insanity trying the same thing as last night and expecting different results. I am not crazy (drooling or babbling) but the results seem to be different.

This morning Blackie was not paralyzed anymore. Servos move with TX and react. Pitch and Yaw reacted in the wrong direction and OPlink did not work today until I reset the baud rate, coordinator check box and coordinator number. And Pitch and Yaw react correctly now.

Also it won't do the Accelerometer Calibration - It says "Calibration Failed see help". I feel like I failed a blood test. Now what? 

This flew about 4 packs in Rate yesterday. I got some PID numbers that I was really happy with but couldn't save so I must either remember the numbers or repeat my test flights.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on April 11, 2016, 10:29:47 pm
I'm still struggling. Nothing will break the paralysis. I don't know what to do.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on April 12, 2016, 03:12:48 am
We will get it . No worries.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on April 12, 2016, 05:15:19 am
So, I switched the atom back to the original CC3D, and it worked. I tried to put the exact settings back on the atom... And nothing. I think the problem is in the atom's output to the servos and I don't know if that's fixable.

I think it's a bit weird because I tried two separate Atom boards and neither worked. The GCS shows all proper movement aside from the collective switch on them but there is no output.

I modded my frame to accept the larger board and I think I will try playing with the atoms more to see if I can get any output through the wizard.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on April 12, 2016, 10:28:52 pm
I am having a similar issue as you where pitch and yaw are reacting the wrong way, but I'm not sure I understand how you fixed it. I am not using OPlink, so I don't think that could be the problem.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: daveapplemotors on April 13, 2016, 01:59:29 am
pitch per servos? Or per PFD (graphics)?

If you are talking bout servo reactions then board orientation should be key to Pitch reactions.

Yaw is easy. You can do a double reverse so that rudder control is the same and yaw reaction will be correct. Reverse your TX rudder channel and reverse rudder channel in Configuration / Output . There is a little check box on the right.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on April 13, 2016, 02:23:16 am
Yaw fixed! Thank you!

I have tried playing with board orientation settings, but it always ends up trying to correct in the wrong direction on either pitch or roll when the heli is moved. The board itself is rotated 90ยบ on the yaw axis, but if I account for to in software, one of the axis (roll or pitch) is backwards.
Title: Re: CC3D and Helicopters
Post by: Woodchuck12 on April 13, 2016, 02:44:02 am
Got it all working. I made the board think its in some weird position that causes yaw to be reversed, then I switched yaw back as per your instructions. Now on to the crashing...