Parris

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Ground loop on ESC's ?
« on: March 22, 2016, 02:36:29 am »


    I understand ground loop problems with multiple AC earth grounded devices . Problems can occur . I'm an electrician .
    But , shouldn't all DC devices be grounded back to the battery ? No matter how many are in the circuit ?
Parris

jbarchuk

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Re: Ground loop on ESC's ?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 03:39:39 am »
My knowledge is only anecdotal. My job used to be to build test fixtures, engineering experiments, and prototypes with no instructions except anything from real schematics to chicken scratch bar napkins. Our department was expected to know how to build power distribution with zero instructions. Circuits could be anything from pure digital to pure analog or more often a mix.

Loopy grounds don't care if they're screwing up an AC or a DC voltage, or an analog or digital signal.

You mentioned ESC specifically. The black wire from the FC to the ESC is less of a 'ground' than it is a reference for the signal. It happens to be called ground but could just as easily be called reference to avoid confusion with other grounds. Since the signal originates from the FC that's where the reference should originate. That's most convenient and accurate because multiple similar design ESCs would prefer to use the same reference. If there's a problem it's be easier to scope and troubleshoot if all ESC grounds (references) are commoned at the same point on the FC rather than, for instance, the ESC grounds be commoned at the battery ground point, or different ESC 'grounds' being connected back to the FC ground through different paths. It probably -could- work that way but that'd be unnecessary weird wiring.

You mentioned 'all devices.' Grounds should be commoned for devices that talk to each other, again so they have a common reference. That's why for example it's best and most convenient to connect power and ground wires from the FC to the Rx. Again it'd 'probably' work if the FC and Rx have separate power/ground connections to the battery or ESC +V (or whatever other source) but that's wasted more complicated unnecessary wiring.

Related to that for example a video system has no interest or relation to Rx or FC. Power and ground can come from anywhere convenient of appropriate voltage. However the camera and VTx components -need- to have a common reference or they'll either get weird or not work at all. Hmmm... an exception to that would be if a noisy video system dumps spikes into Rx or FC power distribution. In that case it'd be better to connect power/ground further back to the original battery source. Or do like I do which is to use a completely separate aux battery that has *no* common connections with the flight system stuff. It's a little extra weight but I don't have to think at all about loops or noise or whatever

I don't know what you really mean by 'no matter how many.'

What's your specific concern/interest?

Lintz

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Re: Ground loop on ESC's ?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2016, 07:01:08 am »
Not sure what what you mean exactly but brushless motors are frequency controlled meaning that on the motor side of the ESC it behaves more like a 3 faze AC system. The other side the grounds are connected more or less directly to the battery ether by hardness or pdb.
May the quad be with you.

Parris

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Re: Ground loop on ESC's ?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2016, 12:15:08 pm »


    Your replies helped me . I understand the three phase AC part of the ESC . That's why a , " ground " , on the DC side was confusing me .

    Reference ! ... It's not a ground , it's signal reference associated .  Now I get it . What everyone calls the ground on the DC side of the ESC is a reference . More like a shield . Or, a drain . Going through all the other forums was only confusing me . Ground ? Calling it a signal ground would be more appropriate .

    It all makes sense to me now .

    Ideally , if you're using BEC'less ESC's with a voltage regulated power distribution board you should twist the signal/signal ground pair to improve or protect signal interference .

                                                   Thank You,

                                                           Parris
Parris