LibrePilot Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: AAFJAPAN on April 28, 2016, 05:58:16 am
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Hey, was getting ready to mount my Hobbyking Revolution board and heard a ping on the desk. I looked down and saw a tiny little chip of some sort. After inspecting the board I saw where it came from, near the flexiport. Can someone tell me what this chip is, and where I can order a new one? It looks to me that the chip itself is broken, but I really don't know what is normal with these tiny little things. I assume it's a bad idea to try and run the board without it. HK is sending me a new one, but I would like to try and repair this one. Any help will be greatly appreciated. [img][img]
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It's a 10 nf size 0603 capacitor.
The voltage regulator (black chip next to it) looks burned/melted or is that just the light?
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It's a 10 nf size 0603 capacitor.
The voltage regulator (black chip next to it) looks burned/melted or is that just the light?
Thanks for the quick reply. I think it is just the light on the voltage regulator, the chips seem to have a glossy ink that is not to evenly spread, and the light is catching it. This board has only been powered up for a couple moments after wiring my pdb to the esc's and battery. No smell, no smoke, just lights dancing.
Do you know a source for the capacitor? There are shops in my area I am sure can repair it. It is right on the edge of what I feel comfortable or rather uncomfortable with trying to solder.
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Will this do? Local for me, but stuck buying 1000. http://jp.rs-online.com/web/p/ceramic-multilayer-capacitors/8847131/
I have to go to work in a minute, but I want to add, that after straining my eyes, I positioned the capacitor pretty much how it was. Where it popped out from you can see some of the capacitor tank material was left behind, and just a tiny bit of the capacitor itself is chipped. So my question is, does this matter? Can I hit this with heat and so long as it holds in there it will still do its job? I assume it's unidirectional..?
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There are shops in my area I am sure can repair it. It is right on the edge of what I feel comfortable or rather uncomfortable with trying to solder.
Call them and ask first. If they have the tools and skills to do the repair then there's a pretty good chance they have the part. It's a dirt cheap part that are available in kits of many parts for casual repairs. The repair $ is the tools an skill, parts are cheap.
But before you do that you should really try to figure out -why- it blew, or it'll probably happen again. I popped something in a Revo because I foolishly accidentally plugged 12V into the 5V input. Duuuh. :( :(
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Call them and ask first. If they have the tools and skills to do the repair then there's a pretty good chance they have the part. It's a dirt cheap part that are available in kits of many parts for casual repairs. The repair $ is the tools an skill, parts are cheap.
But before you do that you should really try to figure out -why- it blew, or it'll probably happen again. I popped something in a Revo because I foolishly accidentally plugged 12V into the 5V input. Duuuh. :( :(
Thanks for the reply, I have been informed of a place that can help, and even guide me to do the work on my own. The capacitor didn't pop, it popped off, as in it just fell off the board for no reason other than not being on their good apparently. It may still be good, but there is a slight chip in one corner where it stayed with the solder on the board. Next week is a national holiday "Golden Week" so it may have to wait as most things are closed during this time. I do have a replacement board on the way, and went ahead and ordered a couple nano's for the builds I intend to sell. What is the consensus on the best GPS for the board? I was thinking m8n as I have very good results with this on my pixhawk build.
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The capacitor didn't pop, it popped off, as in it just fell off the board for no reason other than not being on their good apparently. It may still be good, but there is a slight chip in one corner where it stayed with the solder on the board.
What were you doing at the exact moment that it fell off? The corner chipped, a physically broken part is purely broken, 99% of the time. If you were doing anything with the power system it may have exploded internally but being so tiny not made enough of a sound to hear. The one I broke I heard a tiny pop but have not been able to visually identify what broke. Gofigger.
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This is ceramic capacitor they don't explode. Looks like mechanical damage. Only tantalum caps used often as bypass can explode or electrolyte ones pop up. It's super easy to fix. Desolder residuals and solder new one, maybe board works. 0603 is pretty standard size.
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What is the consensus on the best GPS for the board? I was thinking m8n as I have very good results with this on my pixhawk build.
Depends if you need GPS for navigation or just telemetry ? I assume navigation, so you want also GPS with external magnetometer. GPS+AuxMag in the released LibrePilot is supported only for OP GPS which uses single cable and port. Development code though, if you build yourself on your own risks (I fly that) supports Ublox Neo M8N, M7N, M6N GPS units with I2C Magnetometer and Naza GPS or compatible one. I would suggest Naza compatible GPS with built-in magnetometer. These units use just one serial wire to transmit both GPS and Mag data. This saves you one port, and you avoid trouble with I2C in case of long wires.
Naza compatible GPS likely comes with connector for Naza, so you should buy bunch of pre-crimped JST-SH 1.0 4pin connectors on ebay. They sell them very cheap with cable attached on ebay. Good to have one pack if you are playing with Revo. It's handy to attach current&voltage sensor or anything in future (all except receiver port on Revo are JST-SH 1.0 4 pin).
Something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-SETS-Mini-Micro-SH-1-0-4-Pin-JST-Connector-with-Wires-Cables-100MM-/251979895512
I am using I2C GPS, so posting this link only as reference of what should work in development branch
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEO-M8N-GPS-Compass-Support-DJI-Naza-M-V2-Lite-Flight-Controller-Compatible-se-/391264063169
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The capacitor didn't pop, it popped off, as in it just fell off the board for no reason other than not being on their good apparently. It may still be good, but there is a slight chip in one corner where it stayed with the solder on the board.
What were you doing at the exact moment that it fell off? The corner chipped, a physically broken part is purely broken, 99% of the time. If you were doing anything with the power system it may have exploded internally but being so tiny not made enough of a sound to hear. The one I broke I heard a tiny pop but have not been able to visually identify what broke. Gofigger.
Nothing with power, board was off and not even wired. I was simply attaching hardware for mounting it. Really nothing unusual happened either, no notable bumps or anything.
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This is ceramic capacitor they don't explode. Looks like mechanical damage. Only tantalum caps used often as bypass can explode or electrolyte ones pop up. It's super easy to fix. Desolder residuals and solder new one, maybe board works. 0603 is pretty standard size.
Thanks, it actually gives me an excuse to join up with a local group that does all kinds of DIY and has allot of resources to tap into. My biggest concern with doing this work myself is applying too much heat and damaging the board. Most things I solder are cheap enough that if I F up I can suck it up and move on, but the price is just high enough, and the board is so useful I don't want to F up.
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I assume navigation, so you want also GPS with external magnetometer. GPS+AuxMag in the released LibrePilot is supported only for OP GPS which uses single cable and port. Development code though, if you build yourself on your own risks (I fly that) supports Ublox Neo M8N, M7N, M6N GPS units with I2C Magnetometer and Naza GPS or compatible one. I would suggest Naza compatible GPS with built-in magnetometer. These units use just one serial wire to transmit both GPS and Mag data. This saves you one port, and you avoid trouble with I2C in case of long wires.
Naza compatible GPS likely comes with connector for Naza, so you should buy bunch of pre-crimped JST-SH 1.0 4pin connectors on ebay. They sell them very cheap with cable attached on ebay. Good to have one pack if you are playing with Revo. It's handy to attach current&voltage sensor or anything in future (all except receiver port on Revo are JST-SH 1.0 4 pin).
Something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-SETS-Mini-Micro-SH-1-0-4-Pin-JST-Connector-with-Wires-Cables-100MM-/251979895512
I am using I2C GPS, so posting this link only as reference of what should work in development branch
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEO-M8N-GPS-Compass-Support-DJI-Naza-M-V2-Lite-Flight-Controller-Compatible-se-/391264063169
Alright, helpful but slightly baffling, but that's me not you. Yes, i want it for navigation. So, just to be clear the AuxMag is in reference to an External one, or is the boards Magnometer considered Auxilary ? So do you mean the Development branch has a public Beta type firmware? Finally, are you saying the NAZA M8N units are better than the ones listed as M8N units for CC3D/Revo boards?? I am pretty sure they are cheaper, which is almost reason enough..
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Alright, helpful but slightly baffling, but that's me not you. Yes, i want it for navigation. So, just to be clear the AuxMag is in reference to an External one, or is the boards Magnometer considered Auxilary ? So do you mean the Development branch has a public Beta type firmware? Finally, are you saying the NAZA M8N units are better than the ones listed as M8N units for CC3D/Revo boards?? I am pretty sure they are cheaper, which is almost reason enough..
- External magnetomer is Auxilary (AuxMag).
- Released version of software supports AuxMag only with OP GPS units.
- Development branch supports AuxMag over I2C bus or over serial with Naza GPS units.
- Everything in Librepilot is public, but I am not aware of any official pre-build beta code. Maybe someone can offer those on forum. Though devs are working on setting up an automatic build of development code.
- I don't know what is listed with Revolution board (there is not such thing as Revolution), or where it is listed. This project does not produce any hardware.
This software is pretty advanced and does not turn your flight-controller into ready to fly product out of the box. Every aircraft is different, and requires different setup and tuning.
Navigation does not happen just with GPS. Any GPS on the market alone is horribly bad, it gives samples 5 times a second with error of 2-3 meters, sometimes longer spikes due to multipath reflections and gives orientation ONLY if you are moving in one direction.
GPS mode in fact is a flight mode which requires in addition to accelerometer and gyroscope sensors like magnetometer, barometer and finally GPS unit.
That means, all those components must work and be calibrated, configured and placed correctly to even consider using autonomous flights. People usually start with Basic complementary sensor fusion algorithm, learn about capabilities of software and slowly step up into more advanced modes, but rushing can lead to dangerous situations (I don't know how familiar with basic features you already are).
There is Wiki here https://librepilot.atlassian.net/wiki/display/LPDOC/LibrePilot+Documentation
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Thanks all good info. Just a bit about myself, I am a ET Vector flyer, and Pixhawk flyer. By no means an expert, but I have a bit of knowledge and experience with GPS and Autonomous functions. Also I know there is no such thing as a Revolution, it's why I Said CC3D/Revolution, but I know it is a common mistake and even the rule of thumb for marketing the board.
So with that in mind a couple more questions, are the hobbyking mini gps units considered OP GPS units? Or better yet are any units sold as Openpilot or Revolution GPS units OP units? My guess is no, but figured I should ask. Personally I don't like not having the blinking lite, even though I will be using an OSD on my personal build. Secondly The I2C bus, is it the same style plug as the I2C on a pixhawk unit? and can a pixhawk unit be used. I am very much a visual learner, and raising a 2 year old so it's hard to spend allot of time reading and typing (he's napping now), so any picture or video tutorial links are highly appreciated.
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Sorry for writing such a obvious things, but I assumed you were new :) It's really great that you have experience with other flight-controllers as that will pay off and help you a lot.
There is no OpenPilot hardware produced anymore. Design files were released, and anyone is can make own boards by following schematics. Chinese sellers make clones.
Yes, I2C bus on GPS units for PixHawk usually is for external magnetometer, and it's the same protocol standard. However connectors for Revolution are smaller, I gave a link to correct Revo connectors above (JST-SH 1.0 - 4 pin). Connectors on PixHawk look similar but are bigger. So PixHawk GPS unit can be used with Revo if you change connectors or make an adapter.
I bought GPS unit for PixHawk and changed connector to smaller one to fit into my flight controller and that works fine. However, Naza GPS unit uses one port on the flight controller instead of two which leaves you with more ports to connect stuff.
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It's OK, I could've been more clear about my experience, but I tend to type as fast as I can before my son demands attention. I do want to eventually try and make my own board. Not design one, simply copy the basic version with an aim at quality components, maybe an unusual PCB color just for fun.
So it sounds like no special configuration is needed for the Pixhawk or Naza Gps unit? I do have a Naza GPS, but it's on a larger machine I am planning to sell next week. I will definitely order some of those connectors you linked to. Because I went so far over my spending budget, I have to sell a couple racing frames, and ideally my large hex before I can spend even the $30 bucks on a GPS unit. I may post the racers here just to see if anyone's interested. I am in Japan, so shipping the hex would not be worth it for most.
Thanks again for the info. I think with this forum being new, and with the confusion from the separation, it is good to give too much info rather than not enough since others will surely read this thread, and learn from it.
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So it sounds like no special configuration is needed for the Pixhawk or Naza Gps unit?
You know it, but for completeness and for other users GPS and Mag are separate things, it just happens that it is convenient to put AuxMag inside GPS units.
Ublox GPS you connect serial line and with right connector and when you power system on, the Revolution board will automatically configure your Ublox GPS module and you get coordinates. That even works with released LibrePilot software.
If you want to utilize AuxMag which is different device from GPS, it is included in some GPS units, then you need to build development branch (Unless you have OP GPS that has AuxMag and that is supported in released software).
Change connectors and set that in GCS that it is either I2C AuxMag or Mag on Naza GPS unit. You can also buy AuxMag (hmc5883l) alone and connect it over I2C. But it is good to place it far from other electronics that draw current and mount it in the same way (orientation and level) as internal Mag.
If it happens that you want to use AuxMag inside GPS unit, and it is by design mounted differently than internal magnetometer in Revolution, then you need to change AuxMag Board Rotation in GCS to correct for that, because by default software assumes Mag orientation is the same, but any design can have that located differently.
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So, two more quick questions. 1) what is the quality of the open pilot GPS vs an M8n? Is the OP GPS multiconstellation, what is the average satellite count, HDOP, lock time etc.. Also what is a good source for the OP GPS?
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So, two more quick questions. 1) what is the quality of the open pilot GPS vs an M8n? Is the OP GPS multiconstellation, what is the average satellite count, HDOP, lock time etc.. Also what is a good source for the OP GPS?
The OpenPilot GPS Platinum (aka V9) that's supported in the release version of the software was a Neo-7n based gps with a mag on it. It's no longer made and currently the DJI Naza gps and it's clones are the closest thing to it. I normally recommend them the same as Mateusz did.
The ones you see advertised on eBay and the Chinese sites as "OP GPS" are tiny gps units without a mag and with low gain antennas to make them small (around 20mm x 25mm). They might be necessary for a very tiny quad but aren't recommended for bigger ones. They also tend to run hot for some reason, probably a design flaw. I have two, one I ordered to test and one that came in a package. Both run hot enough you can still touch them but they're very warm bordering on hot to touch. I don't normally fly either one. A developer I know has one that the voltage regulator chip melted and failed.
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It's no longer made and currently the DJI Naza gps and it's clones are the closest thing to it. I normally recommend them the same as Mateusz did.
The ones you see advertised on eBay and the Chinese sites as "OP GPS" are tiny gps units without a mag and with low gain antennas to make them smal... I have two, one I ordered to test and one that came in a package. Both run hot enough you can still touch them but they're very warm bordering on hot to touch. I don't normally fly either one. A developer I know has one that the voltage regulator chip melted and failed.
So just to be absolutely clear any GPS that is intended for NAZA, like the M8n ebay, glb type will work?
As for the hot mini gps's, I assume that is why many listings say "not intended for lengthy flights". My plan was to avoid these units, so no worries. My pixhawk machine has dual GPS units, an M8n and a newer 7 series. I have grown accustomed to very solid lock from the M8n, and am aiming for the same with the Revo.
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It's impossible to say positively that all gps on eBay that say intended for Naza are the right type but if I search eBay for "gps m8n naza" the first dozen or so entries that I checked are the right one. I'm not sure what you mean by "glb type".
If you're thinking of purchasing one on eBay post a link to the auction here and someone can probably tell you if it's the right one.
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Understood, and thanks. I am probably a couple weeks away from ordering a GPS unit.
GLB = Good Luck Buy